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Thread: Slightly off topic. "Lethal force is authorized beyond this point"

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    Slightly off topic. "Lethal force is authorized beyond this point"

    I can't recall exactly where I've seen this sign, but it took me a little by surprise. It was somewhere in the Kent/Covington area last year. There was a sign that clearly stated "Lethal force is authorized beyond this point."

    Anyone know anything about that, and what exactly it means? I've never heard of a case where a person was justified in using lethal force for trespassing.

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    Well, it's either a military installation, or someone who has a "no trespassing" sign on the border of their property. I'm not sure why (or even, technically, if) a no trespassing sign allows lethal force against trespassers - I suppose, since they know they shouldn't be on the land, you can assume they are there to harm you or break the law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by antispam540 View Post
    Well, it's either a military installation, or someone who has a "no trespassing" sign on the border of their property. I'm not sure why (or even, technically, if) a no trespassing sign allows lethal force against trespassers - I suppose, since they know they shouldn't be on the land, you can assume they are there to harm you or break the law.
    I do remember it was a private residence.

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    probably somebody who just copied a DoD sign. There are VERY few places that the DoD even posts those signs (Area 51 being one of them)... I personally have only had one guard mount where we were specifically told to be prepared to shoot, and that was in regard to a particular type of "special" ordinance...any other time it was always "HALT! Do not move or I will shoot!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by oneeyeross View Post
    probably somebody who just copied a DoD sign. There are VERY few places that the DoD even posts those signs (Area 51 being one of them)... I personally have only had one guard mount where we were specifically told to be prepared to shoot, and that was in regard to a particular type of "special" ordinance...any other time it was always "HALT! Do not move or I will shoot!"
    Does Bangor have similar signs? I thought they did?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    I do remember it was a private residence.
    Safe-house for the fedgov agency that starts with the third letter of the alphabet?

    Maybe just an escalation of the old "trespassers will be shot" sign?

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    I'm not up on trespassing law - if it's posted no trespassing, is it legal (not necessarily advised or morally right) to shoot trespassers on sight?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Does Bangor have similar signs? I thought they did?
    I worked at a facility similar to Bangor, WA and regularly faced 'lethal force authorized', including times when the special material was itself far more lethal than any force. We joked that 'they' should be allowed to hand-carry it by the arm load away from some remote location.

    I also watched the Marines run the decks, armed in undress skivvies and body armor, back to back, in the dark at 0030. Made me glad to be a civilian again, honored that they were there to protect me and glad to honor them for their broken bones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by antispam540 View Post
    I'm not up on trespassing law - if it's posted no trespassing, is it legal (not necessarily advised or morally right) to shoot trespassers on sight?
    While I can't answer for sure, the justifiable homicide statute states that homicide is justifiable to prevent the commission of a felony, in which is being performed in the presence of the slayer. Trespassing in itself, is not a felony, so I wouldn't think lethal force can be used in these circumstances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Does Bangor have similar signs? I thought they did?
    Dunno, I wasn't a Squid, I was a Dog-face...so not sure. But again, it is a place with, uh, "special" weapons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    While I can't answer for sure, the justifiable homicide statute states that homicide is justifiable to prevent the commission of a felony, in which is being performed in the presence of the slayer. Trespassing in itself, is not a felony, so I wouldn't think lethal force can be used in these circumstances.
    Understandable. I wonder why the media always portrays the "no trespassing" properties as "you will be shot at by old men with shotguns" properties. If someone's trespassing, all you can do is call the police?

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    Quote Originally Posted by antispam540 View Post
    Understandable. I wonder why the media always portrays the "no trespassing" properties as "you will be shot at by old men with shotguns" properties. If someone's trespassing, all you can do is call the police?
    You can tell them to leave, and if they don't, they are trespassing, thus, committing a misdemeanor in your presence. You now have the right to use force to remove them from your property, or to conduct a "citizens arrest".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    You can tell them to leave, and if they don't, they are trespassing, thus, committing a misdemeanor in your presence. You now have the right to use force to remove them from your property, or to conduct a "citizens arrest".
    Cites, please.

    Forum Rule #5:

    (5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules
    Last edited by Citizen; 10-03-2010 at 08:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Cites, please.

    Forum Rule #5:

    (5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.020

    RCW 9A.16.020

    Use of force When lawful.

    The use, attempt, or offer to use force upon or toward the person of another is not unlawful in the following cases:

    (3) Whenever used by a party about to be injured, or by another lawfully aiding him or her, in preventing or attempting to prevent an offense against his or her person, or a malicious trespass, or other malicious interference with real or personal property lawfully in his or her possession, in case the force is not more than is necessary;

    (4) Whenever reasonably used by a person to detain someone who enters or remains unlawfully in a building or on real property lawfully in the possession of such person, so long as such detention is reasonable in duration and manner to investigate the reason for the detained person's presence on the premises, and so long as the premises in question did not reasonably appear to be intended to be open to members of the public;

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Safe-house for the fedgov agency that starts with the third letter of the alphabet?

    Maybe just an escalation of the old "trespassers will be shot" sign?
    When I was a Jehovah's Witness making my rounds on a fine Saturday morning we were greeted in a driveway by a MWAG. Turns out it was a FBI safehouse. No signs.

    So far as I know a private residence can't actually follow through on such a sign.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gsx1138 View Post
    When I was a Jehovah's Witness making my rounds on a fine Saturday morning we were greeted in a driveway by a MWAG. Turns out it was a FBI safehouse.
    Sounds like fertile ground for witnessing to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Does Bangor have similar signs? I thought they did?
    The last time I was there some of the fences were posted with them.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Does Bangor have similar signs? I thought they did?
    I grew up just outside this facility when it was called the Bangor Ammunition Depot. The best deer hunting was inside the south fence where there were lots of wooded areas and no "bunkers". We used lots of "lethal force" during hunting season.

    When it became the Trident Submarine Base this train visited once in a while. They would DEFINITELY use Lethal Force if you messed with them.



    This train would come from the PANTEX facility delivering those "little things" that made the "big things" go BANG!
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member Leatherneck's Avatar
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    My dad had a sign on his property that said "Trespassers will be violated!"
    HAHAHA!

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Yes military ammo dumps have these signs and they mean it.
    The ones I have been at in Germany near the French Border they played no games and this was in the early 70's M16 with M203 grenade launcher, M60's and laws with in the fenced areas and around bunkers. Some had M60 Gun mounted jeeps as well.

    Here in the States were pretty close to the same but all had high fences, barbwire and large signs.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Does Bangor have similar signs? I thought they did?
    Yes...On the fence at the access to the Delta Pier. And at "The Barn"
    The problem with America is stupidity.
    I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

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    How about this for a private property no-trespassing sign:

    Do you know whether lethal force is authorized for trespassing? The owner of this property does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitney View Post
    Yes...On the fence at the access to the Delta Pier. And at "The Barn"
    It's really a rhetorical question.

    If anyone has been on the grounds and you slightly leave a walking path to take a shortcut somewhere, a very nice but authoritive Marine will appear from nowhere, with a M16 pointed at you and ask for your credentials and get you to understand that you need to stay on the official paths while on base.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Spent a lot of time behind signs like that with an M4 and a smile.

    Outside of an Air Force base, it wouldn't hold as much weight.
    Last edited by maclean; 10-04-2010 at 03:20 PM.

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    Years ago I did door to door sales... Found one house out in the country with fence, signs etc. (Every sales person knows the more defense the easier the sale) I ignored the signs, as usual, passed through the woods and encountered a beautiful meadow with the house at the other end. There were these nice white rocks lining the driveway to the house along the meadow.... Then I saw the sign on the first rock....Private firing range. 100 yrds. Winchester 30.30.

    It wasn't a No Trespassing Lethal force sign, but it got the message across even better!

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