Slightly off topic. "Lethal force is authorized beyond this point"

Aaron1124 · Oct 3, 2010

I can't recall exactly where I've seen this sign, but it took me a little by surprise. It was somewhere in the Kent/Covington area last year. There was a sign that clearly stated "Lethal force is authorized beyond this point."

Anyone know anything about that, and what exactly it means? I've never heard of a case where a person was justified in using lethal force for trespassing.

antispam540 · Oct 3, 2010

Well, it's either a military installation, or someone who has a "no trespassing" sign on the border of their property. I'm not sure why (or even, technically, if) a no trespassing sign allows lethal force against trespassers - I suppose, since they know they shouldn't be on the land, you can assume they are there to harm you or break the law.

Aaron1124 · Oct 3, 2010

antispam540 said:
Well, it's either a military installation, or someone who has a "no trespassing" sign on the border of their property. I'm not sure why (or even, technically, if) a no trespassing sign allows lethal force against trespassers - I suppose, since they know they shouldn't be on the land, you can assume they are there to harm you or break the law.

I do remember it was a private residence.

oneeyeross · Oct 3, 2010

probably somebody who just copied a DoD sign. There are VERY few places that the DoD even posts those signs (Area 51 being one of them)... I personally have only had one guard mount where we were specifically told to be prepared to shoot, and that was in regard to a particular type of "special" ordinance...any other time it was always "HALT! Do not move or I will shoot!"

gogodawgs · Oct 3, 2010

oneeyeross said:
probably somebody who just copied a DoD sign. There are VERY few places that the DoD even posts those signs (Area 51 being one of them)... I personally have only had one guard mount where we were specifically told to be prepared to shoot, and that was in regard to a particular type of "special" ordinance...any other time it was always "HALT! Do not move or I will shoot!"

Does Bangor have similar signs? I thought they did?

Citizen · Oct 3, 2010

Aaron1124 said:
I do remember it was a private residence.

Safe-house for the fedgov agency that starts with the third letter of the alphabet?

Maybe just an escalation of the old "trespassers will be shot" sign?

antispam540 · Oct 3, 2010

I'm not up on trespassing law - if it's posted no trespassing, is it legal (not necessarily advised or morally right) to shoot trespassers on sight?

Doug Huffman · Oct 3, 2010

gogodawgs said:
Does Bangor have similar signs? I thought they did?

I worked at a facility similar to Bangor, WA and regularly faced 'lethal force authorized', including times when the special material was itself far more lethal than any force. We joked that 'they' should be allowed to hand-carry it by the arm load away from some remote location.

I also watched the Marines run the decks, armed in undress skivvies and body armor, back to back, in the dark at 0030. Made me glad to be a civilian again, honored that they were there to protect me and glad to honor them for their broken bones.

Aaron1124 · Oct 3, 2010

antispam540 said:
I'm not up on trespassing law - if it's posted no trespassing, is it legal (not necessarily advised or morally right) to shoot trespassers on sight?

While I can't answer for sure, the justifiable homicide statute states that homicide is justifiable to prevent the commission of a felony, in which is being performed in the presence of the slayer. Trespassing in itself, is not a felony, so I wouldn't think lethal force can be used in these circumstances.

oneeyeross · Oct 3, 2010

gogodawgs said:
Does Bangor have similar signs? I thought they did?

Dunno, I wasn't a Squid, I was a Dog-face...so not sure. But again, it is a place with, uh, "special" weapons.

antispam540 · Oct 3, 2010

Aaron1124 said:
While I can't answer for sure, the justifiable homicide statute states that homicide is justifiable to prevent the commission of a felony, in which is being performed in the presence of the slayer. Trespassing in itself, is not a felony, so I wouldn't think lethal force can be used in these circumstances.

Understandable. I wonder why the media always portrays the "no trespassing" properties as "you will be shot at by old men with shotguns" properties. If someone's trespassing, all you can do is call the police?

Aaron1124 · Oct 3, 2010

antispam540 said:
Understandable. I wonder why the media always portrays the "no trespassing" properties as "you will be shot at by old men with shotguns" properties. If someone's trespassing, all you can do is call the police?

You can tell them to leave, and if they don't, they are trespassing, thus, committing a misdemeanor in your presence. You now have the right to use force to remove them from your property, or to conduct a "citizens arrest".

Citizen · Oct 3, 2010

Aaron1124 said:
You can tell them to leave, and if they don't, they are trespassing, thus, committing a misdemeanor in your presence. You now have the right to use force to remove them from your property, or to conduct a "citizens arrest".

Cites, please.

Forum Rule #5:

(5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

Aaron1124 · Oct 3, 2010

Citizen said:
Cites, please.

Forum Rule #5:

(5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.020

RCW 9A.16.020

Use of force — When lawful.

The use, attempt, or offer to use force upon or toward the person of another is not unlawful in the following cases:

(3) Whenever used by a party about to be injured, or by another lawfully aiding him or her, in preventing or attempting to prevent an offense against his or her person, or a malicious trespass, or other malicious interference with real or personal property lawfully in his or her possession, in case the force is not more than is necessary;

(4) Whenever reasonably used by a person to detain someone who enters or remains unlawfully in a building or on real property lawfully in the possession of such person, so long as such detention is reasonable in duration and manner to investigate the reason for the detained person's presence on the premises, and so long as the premises in question did not reasonably appear to be intended to be open to members of the public;

gsx1138 · Oct 3, 2010

Citizen said:
Safe-house for the fedgov agency that starts with the third letter of the alphabet?

Maybe just an escalation of the old "trespassers will be shot" sign?

When I was a Jehovah's Witness making my rounds on a fine Saturday morning we were greeted in a driveway by a MWAG. Turns out it was a FBI safehouse. No signs.

So far as I know a private residence can't actually follow through on such a sign.

Citizen · Oct 3, 2010

gsx1138 said:
When I was a Jehovah's Witness making my rounds on a fine Saturday morning we were greeted in a driveway by a MWAG. Turns out it was a FBI safehouse.

Sounds like fertile ground for witnessing to me.

joeroket · Oct 3, 2010

gogodawgs said:
Does Bangor have similar signs? I thought they did?

The last time I was there some of the fences were posted with them.

amlevin · Oct 3, 2010

gogodawgs said:
Does Bangor have similar signs? I thought they did?

I grew up just outside this facility when it was called the Bangor Ammunition Depot. The best deer hunting was inside the south fence where there were lots of wooded areas and no "bunkers". We used lots of "lethal force" during hunting season.

When it became the Trident Submarine Base this train visited once in a while. They would DEFINITELY use Lethal Force if you messed with them.

This train would come from the PANTEX facility delivering those "little things" that made the "big things" go BANG!

Leatherneck · Oct 3, 2010

My dad had a sign on his property that said "Trespassers will be violated!"
HAHAHA!

BigDave · Oct 3, 2010

Yes military ammo dumps have these signs and they mean it.
The ones I have been at in Germany near the French Border they played no games and this was in the early 70's M16 with M203 grenade launcher, M60's and laws with in the fenced areas and around bunkers. Some had M60 Gun mounted jeeps as well.

Here in the States were pretty close to the same but all had high fences, barbwire and large signs.

Slightly off topic. "Lethal force is authorized beyond this point"

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