Avoiding LEO Contact

Gunslinger said:

That is really a shame. A cop is nothing more to me than a guy wearing overalls. Going about my lawful business, I'd avoid neither...nor let either interrupt my commerce.

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In my neck of the woods, they don't wear coveralls. Most around this area do wear badges, with guns and handcuffs on a utility belt. This place, while about an hour from the nations capitol, is as country as a chicken coop. MWAG walks in, he will be noticed. As I said, I was tired, cold and trying to avoid drama. So I turned right.

If there was any shame, it is in that I can not trust that law enforcement will respect me as a citizen, and all the rights that go with it. And that shame is not on me.

While on a motorcycle, there are times I without question have the right of way. The laws are written as such. If I proceeded as if that right of way would be respected each and every time I had the right of way, I would have been squished flatter than a June Bug any number of times in the past 40 or so years. With over 350,000 miles on motorcycles, I have learned to proceed with a way out. That gets applied to other areas of my life, too.

Washington State

About a week ago a Sheriff officer hasseled one of our OC buddies for his ID, and he finally gave in when 3 more LEO's came to his "aid". So to show our support for him we went to the same Starbucks where the incident took place. The same LEO that hassled him sat in the coffeshop while about 30 of us "gun nuts" had coffee with our "defective" guns. Then a uniformed LEO came and parked in the parking lot for 45 mins and never got out. Any way here is a link:

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Gun-Owners-Claim-Deputy-Violated-Their-Rights-104218483.html

Also see WA board for more.

We just have to stand our ground and be ready to support our fellow OC'ers when in need. Like we say in the Army, "Leave no fallen comrade behind."

No change for me.

golddigger14s said:

About a week ago a Sheriff officer hasseled one of our OC buddies for his ID, and he finally gave in when 3 more LEO's came to his "aid". So to show our support for him we went to the same Starbucks where the incident took place. The same LEO that hassled him sat in the coffeshop while about 30 of us "gun nuts" had coffee with our "defective" guns. Then a uniformed LEO came and parked in the parking lot for 45 mins and never got out. Any way here is a link:

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Gun-Owners-Claim-Deputy-Violated-Their-Rights-104218483.html

Also see WA board for more.

We just have to stand our ground and be ready to support our fellow OC'ers when in need. Like we say in the Army, "Leave no fallen comrade behind."

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Deputies did not detain him.

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Of course they detained him. Detained does not mean arrested. It means he was not free to leave. They kept him from leaving until his showed his ID. That is detention.

We understand the law, we understand their rights, but if they're carrying guns around, there's a strong possibility that somebody is going to come talk to them.

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No, they don't. If they did, they'd know that they can try to talk to anyone they want to. However, that person does not have to stay and does not have to respond unless the LEO has RAS of a crime and is detaining for investigation of that crime. Courts have repeatedly established that, where OC is unrestricted, OC, in and of itself, is not RAS.

Reporters need to get it right.

eye95 said:

Of course they detained him. Detained does not mean arrested. It means he was not free to leave. They kept him from leaving until his showed his ID. That is detention.



No, they don't. If they did, they'd know that they can try to talk to anyone they want to. However, that person does not have to stay and does not have to respond unless the LEO has RAS of a crime and is detaining for investigation of that crime. Courts have repeatedly established that, where OC is unrestricted, OC, in and of itself, is not RAS.

Reporters need to get it right.

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That wasn't a reporter. The person who said " we know their rights, etc. was Ed Troyer, spokesperson for Pierce County Sheriff's Dept. They walked all over Mr. Brewster's rights. Yes, they did detain him, illegally, and said it was legal.

Ruby said:

That wasn't a reporter. The person who said " we know their rights, etc. was Ed Troyer, spokesperson for Pierce County Sheriff's Dept. They walked all over Mr. Brewster's rights. Yes, they did detain him, illegally, and said it was legal.

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Hmmm....I did end up leaving the impression that both statements were from the reporter. The second one wasn't. The first one was. Reporters need to get it right and LEOs need to learn how to do their job while protecting the rights of LACs.

Thanks for the correction.

Fuller Malarkey said:

If there was any shame, it is in that I can not trust that law enforcement will respect me as a citizen, and all the rights that go with it. And that shame is not on me.

While on a motorcycle, there are times I without question have the right of way. The laws are written as such. If I proceeded as if that right of way would be respected each and every time I had the right of way, I would have been squished flatter than a June Bug any number of times in the past 40 or so years. With over 350,000 miles on motorcycles, I have learned to proceed with a way out. That gets applied to other areas of my life, too.

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No shame on you intended. It's a shame you have to feel that way about cops. It's a shame they caused it.

eye95 said:

Of course they detained him. Detained does not mean arrested. It means he was not free to leave. They kept him from leaving until his showed his ID. That is detention.



No, they don't. If they did, they'd know that they can try to talk to anyone they want to. However, that person does not have to stay and does not have to respond unless the LEO has RAS of a crime and is detaining for investigation of that crime. Courts have repeatedly established that, where OC is unrestricted, OC, in and of itself, is not RAS.

Reporters need to get it right.

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Exactly. "We're going to ask questions." **** them and their questions. "We know the law.." BS. If they 'know the law' why are they asking questions? Cops got killed by some scumbag, and that's truly a shame. But they didn't suspend the constitution because of it.

I often talk to them. Of course I used to be one.

OldCurlyWolf said:

I often talk to them. Of course I used to be one.

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I talked to plenty of them in the VVA. Different attitude among the old timers who were with non-cops who had served in SEA, same as them. "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother..." What occupations we chose after we came home didn't matter much in that venue.

Avoid the cops? In CA yes. NV no.

CA cops will break the law, their oath and attempt to get you on some BS charge (e.g. OC in Livermore). I don't feel the need to put up with it and "vote with my feet and pocketbook" when I can.

It is no more illegal to avoid the police than it is to avoid paying taxes.
Evasion of the police or taxes .... that's another story.

The two are not interchangeable.


I've been known to go out of my way to make their acquaintance ... on my terms.

I have mixed feelings

Awesome thread!

I know plenty of LEO's, but not any are city cops where I live.

I sorta wouldn't mind talking with them when I see them, but after the fiasco over my first OC meet back in March, I have a bad taste in my mouth about them so to speak.

As to avoiding them, I admit I used to but now I refuse to change my legal actions just to avoid them. My attitude is they work for me, so I expect to be respected.

Here in Vermont, Most of the PD's are very knowledgeable about the gun laws, I don't change the way i go about my business when there are cops around. Although, Rutland is a different story. That town has been known to infringe on citizens rights about OC. So i just don't go there for anything....