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Thread: Guns allowed in bars in the news

  1. #1
    Regular Member polekat's Avatar
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    Guns allowed in bars in the news

    WCI...........Member

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    Regular Member anmut's Avatar
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    I don't have an issue with that, but I suggest that the penalties for illegally using it under the influence be severe to serve as a deterrent.

  3. #3
    Regular Member cowboyridn's Avatar
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    Firearms in Bars

    Wouldn't it be interesting to see the day we might be able to invest in opening up a open carry bar, and welcome those who open carry. Lets call it "carry on grill and bar" I used to shoot bow at a range in Adams, and they had a bar and served beer to you after you shot, not before.

    What a debate this would be, alcohal and firearms!!

    Go figure though, I can legally carry concealed in a bar under HR 218, but I can't carry in a State Park, working on that though.

    Here is a link to the article about a shooting in a bar:

    A judge has ordered that concealed weapons charges be dismissed against four off-duty Washington police officers who were charged in connection with a shooting during the Sturgis rally.

    Circuit Judge Warren Johnson ruled Friday that Scott Lazalde, Dennis McCoy, James Rector and Ron Smith are exempt from prosecution under South Dakota state law because of the federal Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act.

    http://pafop38.com/2008/12/28/south-...rs-safety-act/

    Don

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    There should be no infringing prior restraint on self-defense or use of a gun.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    The NYT get it wromg again. As if that were news.

    In 1995 when Virginia passed its shall-ssue Concealed Handgun Permit law they did not allow concealed carry into places that served alcohol for on-premise consumption (Virginia has no bars - only restaurants and clubs). But the law was silent on open carry.

    So open carry in places where alcohol was served for on-premise consumption was legal.

    Virginians have been openly carrying where folks are drinking for over 10 years. The number of persons who caused problems with their legally openly carried firearm is extremely small. The number of problems that have been stopped by lawful use of lawfully openly carried firearms is probably larger, but since the majority of "stops" may be due to the mere presence of the firearm, and because so many incidents do not make it to the police reports, we will never know for sure.

    1 July 2010 a revision to the CHP law went into effect allowing CC where alcohol is sold for on-premisev consumption with the conditionbthat the CC-er is not allowed to consume alcohol. (Yes, under the law an OC-er could drink, but local custom frowns on it so much that it might as well be a law.)

    But the NYT just sees tat some law was passed saying CC is now allowed. They miss the restriction on CC-ers to Shirley emple/Virgin Mary type drinks only. And since we don't have bars, well ....

    Anyhow, they had fun getting their panties in a wad.

    stay safe.

  6. #6
    Regular Member rotty's Avatar
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    Since the state enacted the shall issue stance in MN we have been allowed to carry in bars and I have on occasion. I choose not to drink while carrying, some do, and for them the BAC level to continue to carry is .04 in MN.

    I have not heard of any cases where this has been an issue in the last couple years.
    - Knowledge is power and there IS strength in numbers -

    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson

  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Just because you are drinking should not mean you lose the right to protect yourself.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Just because you are drinking should not mean you lose the right to protect yourself.
    Gosh lets talk about this shall we?

    I suppose any mind-altering substance could be inserted in your statement, eh? Pot? Acid? Meth? What about mind-altering prescription drugs? Or what about someone on Lithium that goes on a drunk? Perhaps you are one of those rare and unique individuals who can stay up all night drinking and the alcohol has no effect on their judgment?

    Heres a little secret about me. I don't drink much to excess, maybe once or twice a year but when I do I can drink like a fish. But there comes a point along about midnight when I pretty much blackout and am not a good drunk and anything could happen and I do mean anything. Wanta go drinking with me when I'm armed?

    What about the right to leave your gun at home when you are out drinking to protect yourself from yourself?

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Gosh lets talk about this shall we?

    I suppose any mind-altering substance could be inserted in your statement, eh? Pot? Acid? Meth? What about mind-altering prescription drugs? Or what about someone on Lithium that goes on a drunk? Perhaps you are one of those rare and unique individuals who can stay up all night drinking and the alcohol has no effect on their judgment?

    Heres a little secret about me. I don't drink much to excess, maybe once or twice a year but when I do I can drink like a fish. But there comes a point along about midnight when I pretty much blackout and am not a good drunk and anything could happen and I do mean anything. Wanta go drinking with me when I'm armed?

    What about the right to leave your gun at home when you are out drinking to protect yourself from yourself?
    Let's take a look at different drugs. A single or a couple of beers isn't going to make you go crazy.

    How many times have you or anyone you know had a couple of beers and drove home? Oh the horror! /sarcasm. You are in charge of a vehicle weight over a ton that can can drive over 60mph. Sounds like more of a dangerous situation than a holstered firearm that never leaves its holster.

    Acid, marijuana, meth, etc, they alter your mind to the point where you cannot tell what reality is. As for some prescribed drugs, same thing. Sometimes they mess with your head too much.

    My statement still stands though, if someone is attacking you and no matter what "drug" you are on, you still have the right to your life, or are you not getting this?
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    It's a plain and simple issue of responsibility. As long as the penalties are for your actions (actions that would otherwise be illegal) and not what your actions "Might" be there isn't an issue.
    Last edited by Brass Magnet; 10-04-2010 at 03:44 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post

    My statement still stands though, if someone is attacking you and no matter what "drug" you are on, you still have the right to your life, or are you not getting this?
    What are you not understanding about recreational drugs including alcohol as a serious enhancer to any charges brought against you. And what don't you understand about even two beers impairing your judgment?

  12. #12
    XxCaMeLxxToSiSxX
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Let's take a look at different drugs. A single or a couple of beers isn't going to make you go crazy.

    How many times have you or anyone you know had a couple of beers and drove home? Oh the horror! /sarcasm. You are in charge of a vehicle weight over a ton that can can drive over 60mph. Sounds like more of a dangerous situation than a holstered firearm that never leaves its holster.

    Acid, marijuana, meth, etc, they alter your mind to the point where you cannot tell what reality is. As for some prescribed drugs, same thing. Sometimes they mess with your head too much.

    My statement still stands though, if someone is attacking you and no matter what "drug" you are on, you still have the right to your life, or are you not getting this?
    IMHO if your mind is alterd your as good as mentaly instable (not the laws stand though just mho)which the laws says your not allowed to carry if your mental ability is gone, just because some idiots drive after a few does not make it any more legal. I also must LMAO @ marijuana altering your mind past reality, i do not use but i have in the past same as alcahol. to be honest my mind seems more stable on marijuana then alcahol but that's just another debate really.
    Last edited by XxCaMeLxxToSiSxX; 10-04-2010 at 10:12 PM.

  13. #13
    XxCaMeLxxToSiSxX
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Just because you are drinking should not mean you lose the right to protect yourself.
    lol, lose your right or not does not really matter, you will lose your ability, if you dont think so lets meet at the bar, you can get drunk and i will stay sober, then we will thumb wrestle ;D and see how it turns out.
    Last edited by XxCaMeLxxToSiSxX; 10-04-2010 at 08:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XxCaMeLxxToSiSxX View Post
    lol, lose your right or not does not really matter, you will lose your ability, if you dont think so lets meet at the bar, you can get drunk and i will stay sober, then we will thumb wrestle ;D and see how it turns out.
    Tru dat...

  15. #15
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XxCaMeLxxToSiSxX View Post
    lol, lose your right or not does not really matter, you will lose your ability, if you dont think so lets meet at the bar, you can get drunk and i will stay sober, then we will thumb wrestle ;D and see how it turns out.
    I hate to even get involved in where this thread is going, but I have to say I am concerned that you seem to imply that drinking or going to the bar is an equivalent to getting 'drunk'. If you are going to the bar and getting drunk, you are already making poor decisions that have little to do with whether or not you have a firearm.

    For many other people in this country, they can have a drink or two, not be impaired and not have to drink until they are 'drunk'.

  16. #16
    XxCaMeLxxToSiSxX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    I hate to even get involved in where this thread is going, but I have to say I am concerned that you seem to imply that drinking or going to the bar is an equivalent to getting 'drunk'. If you are going to the bar and getting drunk, you are already making poor decisions that have little to do with whether or not you have a firearm.

    For many other people in this country, they can have a drink or two, not be impaired and not have to drink until they are 'drunk'.
    Sorry I am not trying to imply that your going to drink or get drunk . I go to the bar alot and do not drink, I think it should be allowed in bars so long as you are not imparing your ability for coherent thought, to much work to try and figure out how many drinks that is, for everyone's is different.
    Last edited by XxCaMeLxxToSiSxX; 10-04-2010 at 08:35 PM.

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    Everyone crows about AZ's Constitutional Carry (which is a name for nothing BTW) but one of the moderate restrictions is that one may carry in a bar or restaurant that serves alcohol but one cannot drink.

    I suppose many here would consider that a horrible "infringement" on your rights.

  18. #18
    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    I'm loving the respect going on in this thread.

    As for my personal views, carry should be legal regardless of alcohol consumption or BAC. The penalties should be stiff if someone uses that weapon in a situation that doesn't warrant it, regardless of whether that person had consumed alcohol (or any other substance.)

    That being said, everyone handles alcohol differently. Some people change very little when they drink. Some talk more, some less. Some people go crazy-though in my experience, alcohol only releases what is already there.

    I wouldn't drink to extent while carrying, as it is, IMO, not responsible. However, being drunk should not suspend my rights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyridn View Post
    Wouldn't it be interesting to see the day we might be able to invest in opening up a open carry bar, and welcome those who open carry. Lets call it "carry on grill and bar" I used to shoot bow at a range in Adams, and they had a bar and served beer to you after you shot, not before.

    What a debate this would be, alcohal and firearms!!

    Go figure though, I can legally carry concealed in a bar under HR 218, but I can't carry in a State Park, working on that though.

    Here is a link to the article about a shooting in a bar:

    A judge has ordered that concealed weapons charges be dismissed against four off-duty Washington police officers who were charged in connection with a shooting during the Sturgis rally.

    Circuit Judge Warren Johnson ruled Friday that Scott Lazalde, Dennis McCoy, James Rector and Ron Smith are exempt from prosecution under South Dakota state law because of the federal Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act.

    http://pafop38.com/2008/12/28/south-...rs-safety-act/

    Don
    Sounds like the lamest bar ever. You wouldn't even need to keep alcohol stocked. When you go to a bar, you go to drink, not carry firearms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    I hate to even get involved in where this thread is going, but I have to say I am concerned that you seem to imply that drinking or going to the bar is an equivalent to getting 'drunk'. If you are going to the bar and getting drunk, you are already making poor decisions that have little to do with whether or not you have a firearm.

    For many other people in this country, they can have a drink or two, not be impaired and not have to drink until they are 'drunk'.
    I seriously take offense to that. Whats wrong with going out with you buddies and drinking until you can't remember your name? As long as you aren't driving, it makes for a fun night with some friends.

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    Are you people serious? GET REAL. Alcohol and gunpowder is a lethal combination.

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    The topic is not about drinking and carrying. The topic is whether or not the state should place entire venues and businesses off limits to someone who is carrying, even if they're not drinking.

    The answer: of course they shouldn't. Employees, designated drivers, contractors (delivery people, band members, etc.) should not be disarmed just because some people there are going to get drunk and stupid. Scratch that -- they should not be disarmed especially because some people there are going to get drunk and stupid.

    I don't go out and drink, but I do quaff a brew or two sometimes, while I'm safely at home. I suppose I could unload and lock away all the guns, but why? It's not like I'm going to forget where they are, where the ammo is, or the combination to the safe. And if there is justification to use a gun in defense of my self or my family or my home, I will do so, no matter what I've had to drink.

    Edit to add: I found it curious that the NYT is covering this. There are only 7 states that still ban carry where alcohol is served. New York has never banned the practice.
    Last edited by KBCraig; 10-04-2010 at 09:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    Are you people serious? GET REAL. Alcohol and gunpowder is a lethal combination.

    + forty gazillion million

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    Mentaly impaired is mentaly impaired. Doesn't matter if it is a permanent condition or a temporary one brought on by alcohol and/or drugs. If you are so concerned about your rights to protect yourself when not responsible for your actions then leave your handguns at home and carry a rifle or shotgun to the bar. Nothing is a better defensive weapon than a 12gauge shotgun full of 00 buckshot. In Wisconsin only handguns are prohibited in bars without owner permission. Shotguns and rifles are lawful. Of course you may find out why certain security people are called "bouncers". Just walk in and lay your shotgun on the bar and declare it is there as your constitutional right to provide for your own personal protection and say "gimme a beer".

  25. #25
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    What are you not understanding about recreational drugs including alcohol as a serious enhancer to any charges brought against you. And what don't you understand about even two beers impairing your judgment?
    Do you have any case law or statute that says this?
    Quote Originally Posted by XxCaMeLxxToSiSxX View Post
    lol, lose your right or not does not really matter, you will lose your ability, if you dont think so lets meet at the bar, you can get drunk and i will stay sober, then we will thumb wrestle ;D and see how it turns out.
    You buying?

    Here's the truth, when I was in IN, I went to the bar CC and drank. Guess what, there were no gun fights, my firearm never jumped out and started shooting everyone, I never landed in jail, etc, etc. All those who says people who consume alcohol and carry are irresponsible, well guess what, gun owners ARE RESPONSIBLE! You sound just like all those people who say allowing people to carry will lead to "blood in the street!" Guess what, it hasn't happened. If it has, prove it!
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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