Guns allowed in bars in the news

polekat said:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/04/us/04guns.html?_r=1&th&emc=th

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I don't have an issue with that, but I suggest that the penalties for illegally using it under the influence be severe to serve as a deterrent.

Firearms in Bars

polekat said:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/04/us/04guns.html?_r=1&th&emc=th

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Wouldn't it be interesting to see the day we might be able to invest in opening up a open carry bar, and welcome those who open carry. Lets call it "carry on grill and bar" I used to shoot bow at a range in Adams, and they had a bar and served beer to you after you shot, not before.

What a debate this would be, alcohal and firearms!!

Go figure though, I can legally carry concealed in a bar under HR 218, but I can't carry in a State Park, working on that though.

Here is a link to the article about a shooting in a bar:

A judge has ordered that concealed weapons charges be dismissed against four off-duty Washington police officers who were charged in connection with a shooting during the Sturgis rally.

Circuit Judge Warren Johnson ruled Friday that Scott Lazalde, Dennis McCoy, James Rector and Ron Smith are exempt from prosecution under South Dakota state law because of the federal Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act.

http://pafop38.com/2008/12/28/south...-218-the-law-enforcement-officers-safety-act/

Don

There should be no infringing prior restraint on self-defense or use of a gun.

The NYT get it wromg again. As if that were news.

In 1995 when Virginia passed its shall-ssue Concealed Handgun Permit law they did not allow concealed carry into places that served alcohol for on-premise consumption (Virginia has no bars - only restaurants and clubs). But the law was silent on open carry.

So open carry in places where alcohol was served for on-premise consumption was legal.

Virginians have been openly carrying where folks are drinking for over 10 years. The number of persons who caused problems with their legally openly carried firearm is extremely small. The number of problems that have been stopped by lawful use of lawfully openly carried firearms is probably larger, but since the majority of "stops" may be due to the mere presence of the firearm, and because so many incidents do not make it to the police reports, we will never know for sure.

1 July 2010 a revision to the CHP law went into effect allowing CC where alcohol is sold for on-premisev consumption with the conditionbthat the CC-er is not allowed to consume alcohol. (Yes, under the law an OC-er could drink, but local custom frowns on it so much that it might as well be a law.)

But the NYT just sees tat some law was passed saying CC is now allowed. They miss the restriction on CC-ers to Shirley emple/Virgin Mary type drinks only. And since we don't have bars, well ....

Anyhow, they had fun getting their panties in a wad.

stay safe.

Since the state enacted the shall issue stance in MN we have been allowed to carry in bars and I have on occasion. I choose not to drink while carrying, some do, and for them the BAC level to continue to carry is .04 in MN.

I have not heard of any cases where this has been an issue in the last couple years.

Just because you are drinking should not mean you lose the right to protect yourself.

protias said:

Just because you are drinking should not mean you lose the right to protect yourself.

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Gosh lets talk about this shall we?

I suppose any mind-altering substance could be inserted in your statement, eh? Pot? Acid? Meth? What about mind-altering prescription drugs? Or what about someone on Lithium that goes on a drunk? Perhaps you are one of those rare and unique individuals who can stay up all night drinking and the alcohol has no effect on their judgment?

Heres a little secret about me. I don't drink much to excess, maybe once or twice a year but when I do I can drink like a fish. But there comes a point along about midnight when I pretty much blackout and am not a good drunk and anything could happen and I do mean anything. Wanta go drinking with me when I'm armed?

What about the right to leave your gun at home when you are out drinking to protect yourself from yourself?

Spartacus said:

Gosh lets talk about this shall we?

I suppose any mind-altering substance could be inserted in your statement, eh? Pot? Acid? Meth? What about mind-altering prescription drugs? Or what about someone on Lithium that goes on a drunk? Perhaps you are one of those rare and unique individuals who can stay up all night drinking and the alcohol has no effect on their judgment?

Heres a little secret about me. I don't drink much to excess, maybe once or twice a year but when I do I can drink like a fish. But there comes a point along about midnight when I pretty much blackout and am not a good drunk and anything could happen and I do mean anything. Wanta go drinking with me when I'm armed?

What about the right to leave your gun at home when you are out drinking to protect yourself from yourself?

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Let's take a look at different drugs. A single or a couple of beers isn't going to make you go crazy.

How many times have you or anyone you know had a couple of beers and drove home? Oh the horror! /sarcasm. You are in charge of a vehicle weight over a ton that can can drive over 60mph. Sounds like more of a dangerous situation than a holstered firearm that never leaves its holster.

Acid, marijuana, meth, etc, they alter your mind to the point where you cannot tell what reality is. As for some prescribed drugs, same thing. Sometimes they mess with your head too much.

My statement still stands though, if someone is attacking you and no matter what "drug" you are on, you still have the right to your life, or are you not getting this?

It's a plain and simple issue of responsibility. As long as the penalties are for your actions (actions that would otherwise be illegal) and not what your actions "Might" be there isn't an issue.

protias said:

My statement still stands though, if someone is attacking you and no matter what "drug" you are on, you still have the right to your life, or are you not getting this?

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What are you not understanding about recreational drugs including alcohol as a serious enhancer to any charges brought against you. And what don't you understand about even two beers impairing your judgment?

protias said:

Let's take a look at different drugs. A single or a couple of beers isn't going to make you go crazy.

How many times have you or anyone you know had a couple of beers and drove home? Oh the horror! /sarcasm. You are in charge of a vehicle weight over a ton that can can drive over 60mph. Sounds like more of a dangerous situation than a holstered firearm that never leaves its holster.

Acid, marijuana, meth, etc, they alter your mind to the point where you cannot tell what reality is. As for some prescribed drugs, same thing. Sometimes they mess with your head too much.

My statement still stands though, if someone is attacking you and no matter what "drug" you are on, you still have the right to your life, or are you not getting this?

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IMHO if your mind is alterd your as good as mentaly instable (not the laws stand though just mho)which the laws says your not allowed to carry if your mental ability is gone, just because some idiots drive after a few does not make it any more legal. I also must LMAO @ marijuana altering your mind past reality, i do not use but i have in the past same as alcahol. to be honest my mind seems more stable on marijuana then alcahol but that's just another debate really.

protias said:

Just because you are drinking should not mean you lose the right to protect yourself.

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lol, lose your right or not does not really matter, you will lose your ability, if you dont think so lets meet at the bar, you can get drunk and i will stay sober, then we will thumb wrestle ;D and see how it turns out.

XxCaMeLxxToSiSxX said:

lol, lose your right or not does not really matter, you will lose your ability, if you dont think so lets meet at the bar, you can get drunk and i will stay sober, then we will thumb wrestle ;D and see how it turns out.

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Tru dat...

XxCaMeLxxToSiSxX said:

lol, lose your right or not does not really matter, you will lose your ability, if you dont think so lets meet at the bar, you can get drunk and i will stay sober, then we will thumb wrestle ;D and see how it turns out.

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I hate to even get involved in where this thread is going, but I have to say I am concerned that you seem to imply that drinking or going to the bar is an equivalent to getting 'drunk'. If you are going to the bar and getting drunk, you are already making poor decisions that have little to do with whether or not you have a firearm.

For many other people in this country, they can have a drink or two, not be impaired and not have to drink until they are 'drunk'.

Rich B said:

I hate to even get involved in where this thread is going, but I have to say I am concerned that you seem to imply that drinking or going to the bar is an equivalent to getting 'drunk'. If you are going to the bar and getting drunk, you are already making poor decisions that have little to do with whether or not you have a firearm.

For many other people in this country, they can have a drink or two, not be impaired and not have to drink until they are 'drunk'.

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Sorry I am not trying to imply that your going to drink or get drunk . I go to the bar alot and do not drink, I think it should be allowed in bars so long as you are not imparing your ability for coherent thought, to much work to try and figure out how many drinks that is, for everyone's is different.

Everyone crows about AZ's Constitutional Carry (which is a name for nothing BTW) but one of the moderate restrictions is that one may carry in a bar or restaurant that serves alcohol but one cannot drink.

I suppose many here would consider that a horrible "infringement" on your rights.

I'm loving the respect going on in this thread.

As for my personal views, carry should be legal regardless of alcohol consumption or BAC. The penalties should be stiff if someone uses that weapon in a situation that doesn't warrant it, regardless of whether that person had consumed alcohol (or any other substance.)

That being said, everyone handles alcohol differently. Some people change very little when they drink. Some talk more, some less. Some people go crazy-though in my experience, alcohol only releases what is already there.

I wouldn't drink to extent while carrying, as it is, IMO, not responsible. However, being drunk should not suspend my rights.

cowboyridn said:

Wouldn't it be interesting to see the day we might be able to invest in opening up a open carry bar, and welcome those who open carry. Lets call it "carry on grill and bar" I used to shoot bow at a range in Adams, and they had a bar and served beer to you after you shot, not before.

What a debate this would be, alcohal and firearms!!

Go figure though, I can legally carry concealed in a bar under HR 218, but I can't carry in a State Park, working on that though.

Here is a link to the article about a shooting in a bar:

A judge has ordered that concealed weapons charges be dismissed against four off-duty Washington police officers who were charged in connection with a shooting during the Sturgis rally.

Circuit Judge Warren Johnson ruled Friday that Scott Lazalde, Dennis McCoy, James Rector and Ron Smith are exempt from prosecution under South Dakota state law because of the federal Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act.

http://pafop38.com/2008/12/28/south...-218-the-law-enforcement-officers-safety-act/

Don

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Sounds like the lamest bar ever. You wouldn't even need to keep alcohol stocked. When you go to a bar, you go to drink, not carry firearms.

Rich B said:

I hate to even get involved in where this thread is going, but I have to say I am concerned that you seem to imply that drinking or going to the bar is an equivalent to getting 'drunk'. If you are going to the bar and getting drunk, you are already making poor decisions that have little to do with whether or not you have a firearm.

For many other people in this country, they can have a drink or two, not be impaired and not have to drink until they are 'drunk'.

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I seriously take offense to that. Whats wrong with going out with you buddies and drinking until you can't remember your name? As long as you aren't driving, it makes for a fun night with some friends.