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Thread: What are you legally protected to do?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Stretch's Avatar
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    What are you legally protected to do?

    Armed robber hits Kennewick bank
    By Michelle Dupler, Herald staff writer

    Tara Carman expected to have an normal Saturday afternoon when she walked into US Bank on Columbia Center Boulevard in Kennewick at 1 p.m. to exchange some Canadian currency.

    Like the dozen or so other people in line, she just wanted to do a little business before the bank closed and then move on with her day.

    But then a man walked in carrying a gun, and those customers and the tellers expecting to soon end their shifts found themselves in the middle of a bank robbery.

    "The guy came in and jumped up on the counter," Carman said. "He broke some glass -- a vase or something. He started yelling at the teller."

    The man was wearing a bicycle helmet, sunglasses and had a black bandanna covering his face, she said....


    Read more: http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2010/1...#ixzz11OsJo4ls


    So my question is: If you are doing business in the bank, regardless of OC/CC, what rights do you have to act in defense of yourself and those in the bank against this robber? If any?

    I'm certain there are hundreds of scenarios we could go through, but namely, if a person chose to draw their weapon in defense of themselves, would you be protected from being charged? I'm asking this to benefit furthering our knowledge base as a group.

  2. #2
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    If my wife and kids are with me I would kill the SOB. If I was alone I would tke cover and only act if I felt it was the only option open to me. I carry a weapon to protect me and mine. I will let everyone else wory about themselves.

    RCW 9A.16.050
    Homicide By other person When justifiable.

    Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

    (1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

    (2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is.

  3. #3
    Regular Member USMC1911's Avatar
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    X2 ME and MINE ! After that, take cover, break contact, exit the area.
    I am a Sheep Dog, ... Wolves Beware !

  4. #4
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    Read this.

  5. #5
    Regular Member killchain's Avatar
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    Unless the assailant is either going to harm you or another person, do not use deadly force.
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

  6. #6
    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    If I did intervene, I would have to be in a reasonable position to do the most good and not make a bad situation worse by harming bystanders. Do I have a shot, are there hostages involved, am I in the line of fire -- lots of unknowns. Granted, in a fast moving and heated situation such as this I really don't have time to make that kind of an assessment, but I can determine how much danger I am in or those in my party and respond accordingly. If I have a reasonable certainty that I can intervene without making things worse, I MIGHT respond. It also depends on where. Otherwise, find cover, observe, and respond if the danger shifts to my direction.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Been there, sort of...

    I was at a bank last year in Ellensburg while it was robbed. As far as robberies go, it went well. He quietly demanded and receieved the money in the drawer and then he left. I was behind the teller row, sitting on the floor, working on a phone jack and I missed the entire thing.
    This was a life changer for me as I drove home to Kennewick I was thinking, "If it went poorly, how would I have survived?" I still have the workplace issue since I cannot carry at work but I am never unarmed and my wife is coming on board rapidly.
    I do "gameplay" scenerios in my head regarding places I travel and possible situations I might find myself in. Learned that at the sandtable in the Army. Turning the map around and looking at scenes from the bad guy's view.
    Would I shoot? Alone I would wait and try to extract myself but with my family? I would try to get them clear while looking for an opportunity to them to escape or for me to take him down.
    Too bad I skipped ninja training in school...
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

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  8. #8
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    The bank has insurance.

    If the robber is simply stealing money and not looking like he is going to harm anyone why start a gun fight in a crowded bank. If it looks like he is going to start harming people all bets are off, 2 each 10mm to the center of mass, repeat as needed until the threat stops.

  9. #9
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    The bank has insurance.

    Double tap
    Last edited by Jeff Hayes; 01-31-2011 at 08:00 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigfan View Post
    I'm not even getting in sight or recording the incident if I can on behalf of anyone else. When I tried to simply record events going down, I ended up putting my rights on the line and the person I was trying to help turned on me because he didn't like guns. I'm lucky I was recording when my weapon was drawn, but I'll never pick up so much as a video camera on behalf of someone else again. If he starts blasting, I'm taking strategic cover and drawing my weapon out of site in case he attacks me directly or one of my family. But if he is just shooting others, it's not my problem. I know it's heartless and whatnot, but I'm not going to be helpful when my back isn't covered. Not even going to call the cops or be a witness. It just isn't worth it.

    My tools are for my use only. I don't use them to defend anyone but me and my family. That said, if the man is standing on the counter and pointing a firearm back toward where I am, his counter position makes him an easy target to hit without harming anyone else in the process.
    Sigh, than 'the man' won!!!! Because they harassed you and inconvenienced you they now have changed, your natural human (dare I say male) instinct to protect others. I am determined not to let 'the man' win.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  11. #11
    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Sigh, than 'the man' won!!!! Because they harassed you and inconvenienced you they now have changed, your natural human (dare I say male) instinct to protect others. I am determined not to let 'the man' win.
    ^^^^^^^^^
    What he said.

    I refuse to let the bad guys win. If I can do something in any given situation, whether or not a firearm is involved, I will. I find it somewhat ironic that some of you, shall we say, "cop-shy" guys who love to scream that we need less cops, are not inclined to take the very actions that would allow for fewer cops.

    In other words, if we the people were more willing to help each other out when we could, especially when it comes to defending against these human wastes, we wouldn't need so many cops. They'd be free to come along after the fact and either haul the perp to the morgue or track him down and arrest him (by following the blood trail) if he limps away. That IS the "ideal" role of police in a less-policed society, is it not?

    In this specific situation, madman standing on a counter waving a gun around is a clear and immediate threat to myself and anyone around me. He's getting dropped, especially if he's standing on the counter and I'm down on the ground where I assume everyone else was too, thereby minimizing potential collateral damage.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

  12. #12
    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Sigh, than 'the man' won!!!! Because they harassed you and inconvenienced you they now have changed, your natural human (dare I say male) instinct to protect others. I am determined not to let 'the man' win.

    SVG, I'm just glad he admitted it now. Best to know ahead.


    Been harassed by the police? Yelled at by the anti-gun neighbors? Mother doesn't approve?

    Then this is the place for you! Click here to get back at them!

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    The Greator Good

    I remember when I first enlisted in the military and every time I reenlisted......"All enemies, foreign and domestic" Washington is a "stand your ground" state. I will stand my ground. I was taught as a child that to pick up a weapon in your hand is a great responsibility. A responsibility to all who are around you. I will be safe in the use of my weapon as to not harm those around me with its miss use. As an Armed Citizen, I feel a responsibility to protect those within my immediate sphere of influence. The phrase " If not you, Who??" comes quickly to mind. I do not prefer combat. I do not allow oppression. I, for one, will stand my ground.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Excellent points

    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    I remember when I first enlisted in the military and every time I reenlisted......"All enemies, foreign and domestic" Washington is a "stand your ground" state. I will stand my ground. I was taught as a child that to pick up a weapon in your hand is a great responsibility. A responsibility to all who are around you. I will be safe in the use of my weapon as to not harm those around me with its miss use. As an Armed Citizen, I feel a responsibility to protect those within my immediate sphere of influence. The phrase " If not you, Who??" comes quickly to mind. I do not prefer combat. I do not allow oppression. I, for one, will stand my ground.
    Thanks MSG.

    In a world where I walked alone I would stand where you are. The main difference is that I have 4 little kids who will need their Papa to be there for them. I will not sacrifice myself to protect fiat currency or replaceable items. My children are irreplacable as am I. As are others children. I would protect people but not things.

    Regarding the Oath, I believe there will be a day when I will be required to live up to that Oath I took at the MEPS station in Seattle many years ago. For my children's sake.

    Thanks again MSG. Be safe.
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

    Freedom First 1775

    "I aim to misbehave..." Malcolm Reynolds

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