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Thread: open carry

  1. #1
    Regular Member mobodyguard's Avatar
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    open carry

    just spoke with a teacher that teaches ccw classes just informed me that if you have a ccw that the law states that you are not allowed to open carry. is this true. GIVE UR EVIDENCE

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    I would ask your teacher to show you the exact MO state statue he is referring to. He won't be able to. This is an argument that has been used other places, but it is still wrong. A CCW permit allows a person to conceal upon their persons a weapon. This is because it specifically states in the MO state statues that it is illegal to do so otherwise. There is no where in the statues that say if you chose to obtain a permit you are forever kept from carrying in any other manner. It's not a one or the other kind of thing. Here is a link to the MO Bill Of Rights, Article 1, Section 23


    http://www.moga.mo.gov/const/A01023.HTM


    And a link to MO State Statues Chapter 571. It is the chapter on Weapons Offenses. No where in there shall you find that is is illegal to carry openly if you have a CCW permit.


    http://www.moga.mo.gov/STATUTES/C571.HTM

    Hope this helps

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    Quote Originally Posted by mobodyguard View Post
    just spoke with a teacher that teaches ccw classes just informed me that if you have a ccw that the law states that you are not allowed to open carry. is this true. GIVE UR EVIDENCE
    Tell him to show the Mo law that states that or shut up, he can't do it. He is full of bull fecal matter.

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    We have that same problem in my area with 2 instructors. It's simply NOT the case. The statues for CCW don't even mention open carry. I won't re-post everything SavageOne already posted, but it's NOT the case. You can open carry any place that is not regulated by local ordinance. CCW or not, period.

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    Same instructor?

    We had this discussion about 2 weeks ago in this thread (Open Carry Illegal with a CCW) from a fella in Jackson county. Wonder if it's the same instructor...

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    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobodyguard View Post
    just spoke with a teacher that teaches ccw classes just informed me that if you have a ccw that the law states that you are not allowed to open carry. is this true. GIVE UR EVIDENCE
    I would recommend NOT taking any classes with that instructor. That is completely and totally false.

  7. #7
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    Some state DO REQUIRE per the CCW laws that the weapon be concealed. What does Missouri's statute actually say?

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    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    Some state DO REQUIRE per the CCW laws that the weapon be concealed. What does Missouri's statute actually say?
    Carrying a concealed firearm in Missouri is a felony. Having a valid CCW permit exempts you from that statute. Open carry, on the other hand, is not restricted at all by the State of Missouri, and a CCW permit has no bearing on an openly carried firearm one way or the other.

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    If an instructor wants to say something so recklessly false, I would take every other thing he stated with a grain of salt. Its people like him that spread misinformation and contribute to common misconceptions about gun laws.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cshoff View Post
    Carrying a concealed firearm in Missouri is a felony. Having a valid CCW permit exempts you from that statute. Open carry, on the other hand, is not restricted at all by the State of Missouri, and a CCW permit has no bearing on an openly carried firearm one way or the other.
    This is not complete and accurate information.

    CCW permits do, in fact, have a bearing on OC in some jurisdictions. In Fair Grove, MO, it is against the city code to openly carry a firearm, but having a CCW exempts you from this code.

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    Bolivar is another municipality that regulates open carry based on ccw status. I was looking at it from the states point of view, anyone who can lawfully possess a firearm can open carry a firearm. Certainly municipalities and counties can regulate open carry in any fashion they see fit (up to and including a complete ban of open carry) and they could create an ordinance that forbids the open carry of a firearm if you have a ccw. I know of no jurisdiction that allows open carry for everyone except those with a ccw, but that doesnít mean they arenít out there.

    I guess for the sake of clarity, we would have to know if the instructor is referring to state statute or county/city ordinance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cshoff View Post
    Carrying a concealed firearm in Missouri is a felony. Having a valid CCW permit exempts you from that statute. Open carry, on the other hand, is not restricted at all by the State of Missouri, and a CCW permit has no bearing on an openly carried firearm one way or the other.
    Here is one of my local list of city's OC legal status with and without a CCW.

    Doc


  13. #13
    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HYRYSC View Post
    This is not complete and accurate information.

    CCW permits do, in fact, have a bearing on OC in some jurisdictions. In Fair Grove, MO, it is against the city code to openly carry a firearm, but having a CCW exempts you from this code.
    As far as the State of Missouri is concerned, a CCW permit has no bearing whatsoever on open carry. Since JoeSparky specifically asked about State Law, I provided him with the correct answer. The rest of the relevant information was already answered above by Shooter64738 when he said; "...You can open carry any place that is not regulated by local ordinance. CCW or not, period.".

    The information I provided was both complete and accurate as it applies to state law.

  14. #14
    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter64738 View Post
    Bolivar is another municipality that regulates open carry based on ccw status. I was looking at it from the states point of view, anyone who can lawfully possess a firearm can open carry a firearm. Certainly municipalities and counties can regulate open carry in any fashion they see fit (up to and including a complete ban of open carry) and they could create an ordinance that forbids the open carry of a firearm if you have a ccw. I know of no jurisdiction that allows open carry for everyone except those with a ccw, but that doesnít mean they arenít out there.

    I guess for the sake of clarity, we would have to know if the instructor is referring to state statute or county/city ordinance.
    I don't believe they could; or should I say, I don't believe it would mean anything. As per state law, you are only required to carry the CCW endorsement when you are carrying a concealed firearm. In a jurisdiction that enacted a ordinance such as you described above, a person who wanted to open carry would simply need to wear the gun in an exposed fashion and leave the CCW endorsement at home. One CANNOT be considered "authorized" to carry a concealed firearm if one does NOT have the CCW endorsement on their person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cshoff View Post
    I don't believe they could; or should I say, I don't believe it would mean anything. As per state law, you are only required to carry the CCW endorsement when you are carrying a concealed firearm. In a jurisdiction that enacted a ordinance such as you described above, a person who wanted to open carry would simply need to wear the gun in an exposed fashion and leave the CCW endorsement at home. One CANNOT be considered "authorized" to carry a concealed firearm if one does NOT have the CCW endorsement on their person.
    I've tried to find a way around this but I keep getting stuck. If RSMo 21.750 allows political subdivisions to 'regulate the open carry, or discharge' of firearms. And the weapons offenses don't mention anything about open carry, unless of course you can't legally posses a firearm.. How could I get out of a citation from Bolivar, if their open carry regulations require me to have a ccw permit in order to open carry?

    It's not regulating concealed carry exactly, so I can't get out of it that way. It's regulating open carry, but it's requiring me to have a ccw permit in order to open carry in that town.

    This would all be so much easier if I could just talk them into changing 21.750, and let the state preemption rein supreme!

  16. #16
    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter64738 View Post
    I've tried to find a way around this but I keep getting stuck. If RSMo 21.750 allows political subdivisions to 'regulate the open carry, or discharge' of firearms. And the weapons offenses don't mention anything about open carry, unless of course you can't legally posses a firearm.. How could I get out of a citation from Bolivar, if their open carry regulations require me to have a ccw permit in order to open carry?
    You couldn't. But your statement that I replied to was, ".....they could create an ordinance that forbids the open carry of a firearm if you have a ccw.....", and it was to that statement that I said I don't believe such an ordinance would do them any good.

    It's not regulating concealed carry exactly, so I can't get out of it that way. It's regulating open carry, but it's requiring me to have a ccw permit in order to open carry in that town.
    Which, under 21.750, they appear to have the right to do. In fact, under 21.750, they could require you to have a valid drivers license in order to open carry, or they could require you to wear a bright orange shirt with the words "I HAVE A GUN" stamped across the front in order to open carry, if they really wanted to.

    This would all be so much easier if I could just talk them into changing 21.750, and let the state preemption rein supreme!
    Ain't that the truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HYRYSC View Post
    This is not complete and accurate information.

    CCW permits do, in fact, have a bearing on OC in some jurisdictions. In Fair Grove, MO, it is against the city code to openly carry a firearm, but having a CCW exempts you from this code.
    True, in some local jurisdictions. I think his point was that CCW has no bearing as far as the state of Missouri goes. If a local jurisdiction makes no law about open carry, then CCW has zero effect regarding it.

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