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Thread: Whats the law for mag capacity?

  1. #1
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    Whats the law for mag capacity?

    I currently live in Idaho, but travel to California for family visits quite a bit, specifically Rio Linda in Sacramento County. I used to live there for 32 years. I am wanting to carry openly on my next visit and my firearm of choice is a Springfield XD compact .45. It has the 10rd mag and a 13rd mag. I know that Cali has a 10rd law, but does that affect when somebody from another state is visiting? The XD comes with a mag holster as well as the belt holster. Can I carry both of these magazines in California or am I just asking for trouble. Also, what should I be aware of when incountering LEO's ? Thanks for the help.
    Last edited by None2Slow; 10-05-2010 at 02:00 AM.

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    Can I carry both of these magazines in California? NO, just the 10rd mag.

    What should I be aware of when incountering LEO's? You're ID is not California and they will taken the 13rd mag and cited.

  3. #3
    Regular Member wildhawker's Avatar
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    Do not import assembled large-cap mags. Feel free to bring in your 10 round (or less) mags.

    Never, ever ever consent to a search, and always state then exercise your right to remain silent.

    If you encounter some sort of firearm-related legal issue in California, call our hotline at 800-556-2109.
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    Unless explicitly stated otherwise, all comments are my own and not the approved position of any organization, nor should they be considered legal advice.

  4. #4
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
    Do not import assembled large-cap mags. Feel free to bring in your 10 round (or less) mags.

    Never, ever ever consent to a search, and always state then exercise your right to remain silent.

    If you encounter some sort of firearm-related legal issue in California, call our hotline at 800-556-2109.
    who is this hotline gonna be answered by??
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    who is this hotline gonna be answered by??
    Because you didn't read the bottom.
    Last edited by Wc; 10-05-2010 at 02:34 AM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    That number just went on my card for Cali Carry.

    Now, being an Oregon resident (formerly from Cali), I carry my 12 round mags with my S&W 469 9mm. I bought the weapon (and the mags) when I lived in Cali, lawfully moved them to Oregon, and can lawfully return to Cali with them. Much to the chagrin of anyone who may go....oooo ooo we got him....

    I wouldn't carry that weapon but for the fact that my other two sidearms (and my favorite rifle) are prohibited in cali due to mag capacity for one (which I aquired after leaving Cali and refuse to buy "wuss mags" for a 21 round capacity sidearm) and the other which is outright banned in Cali. Of course my deer rifle is also banned as an "evil black rifle"....even though it's mossy oak camo....an AR 10.

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    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wc View Post
    Can I carry both of these magazines in California? NO, just the 10rd mag.

    What should I be aware of when incountering LEO's? You're ID is not California and they will taken the 13rd mag and cited.
    Incorrect response.

    It is perfectly legal for a non-california resident to bring large capacity magazines (10+ rounds) into the state provided that they were posessed within the state prior to 1/1/00.

    Posession of a large capacity magazine is not illegal. Importation, manufacturing, selling, offering for sale, giving & loaning large cap mags is generally a potential felony.

    12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following
    is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
    or in the state prison:
    ...
    (2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be
    manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or
    exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity
    magazine.
    ...
    (b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
    ...
    (23) The importation of a large-capacity magazine by a person who
    lawfully possessed the large-capacity magazine in the state prior to
    January 1, 2000, lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning
    to the state with the large-capacity magazine previously lawfully
    possessed in the state.

  8. #8
    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by We-the-People View Post
    ... and the other which is outright banned in Cali. Of course my deer rifle is also banned as an "evil black rifle"....even though it's mossy oak camo....an AR 10.
    I'm curious what handgun you believe is 'outright banned' in CA - the only one I can thing of is the Taurus Judge - here in CA its classified as a Short Barreled Shotgun.

    Your AR-10 - presuming its not actually an "Armalite AR 10" might be perfectly legal here as well. Generally speaking if its not on the outright 'banned' list, all you need todo is but on a 'bullet button' magazine release combined with non large capacity mags and its perfectly legal here. Check this flowchart for legality (http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf)

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjones View Post
    Incorrect response.

    It is perfectly legal for a non-california resident to bring large capacity magazines (10+ rounds) into the state provided that they were posessed within the state prior to 1/1/00.

    Posession of a large capacity magazine is not illegal. Importation, manufacturing, selling, offering for sale, giving & loaning large cap mags is generally a potential felony.

    12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following
    is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
    or in the state prison:
    ...
    (2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be
    manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or
    exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity
    magazine.
    ...
    (b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
    ...
    (23) The importation of a large-capacity magazine by a person who
    lawfully possessed the large-capacity magazine in the state prior to
    January 1, 2000, lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning
    to the state with the large-capacity magazine previously lawfully
    possessed in the state.
    This makes my 13 round mags for my Hi-Power completely legal as I bought them in CA, when it was still a part of the US, before going to SEA in '73. Now, should I be insane enough to enter the PDR of Kalifornia, they are completely legal to have, carry and use. In MA, my 13 rounders were legal by virtue of grandfathering, as well. Even though they are evil and honest subjects should only have 10 rounds, not the devil's 13.

  10. #10
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjones View Post
    I'm curious what handgun you believe is 'outright banned' in CA - the only one I can thing of is the Taurus Judge - here in CA its classified as a Short Barreled Shotgun.
    mjones is absolutely correct (as usual) about the magazines being perfectly legal as long as they were possessed in CA prior to 1/1/2000.

    Outside of the Judge, he could have a handgun with a threaded barrel, which would be deemed an "assault weapon."

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    I'm aware of...

    Quote Originally Posted by mjones View Post
    Incorrect response.

    It is perfectly legal for a non-california resident to bring large capacity magazines (10+ rounds) into the state provided that they were posessed within the state prior to 1/1/00.

    Posession of a large capacity magazine is not illegal. Importation, manufacturing, selling, offering for sale, giving & loaning large cap mags is generally a potential felony.

    12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following
    is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
    or in the state prison:
    ...
    (2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be
    manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or
    exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity
    magazine.
    ...
    (b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
    ...
    (23) The importation of a large-capacity magazine by a person who
    lawfully possessed the large-capacity magazine in the state prior to
    January 1, 2000, lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning
    to the state with the large-capacity magazine previously lawfully
    possessed in the state.
    Howdy MJones,

    OP didn't stated when and where on 13rd mag.
    Non-California resident is better off before the Kalifornia LEO, DA and judge.
    Botttom line... how can you provided it on the spot with the LEO?
    Does mag have a marked from State and before or after dated?
    Do trained LEO known about the mag's marked and/or law?

  12. #12
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wc View Post
    Botttom line... how can you provided it on the spot with the LEO?
    Does mag have a marked from State and before or after dated?
    Do trained LEO known about the mag's marked and/or law?
    All these questions would apply equally to residents of California who have regular capacity magazines as well. Police need probable cause to arrest, and since possession isn't a crime and since bringing a regular capacity magazine into the state isn't always illegal, then we can conclude that probable cause doesn't exist even if the OP is stopped one foot into the border of California. The only way any person could be (successfully) arrested for being stopped immediately inside the border of California would be if the person had a receipt for the magazines from another state that had occurred after 1/1/2000 (but where the statute of limitations hadn't taken effect).

    Is it possible that you may get arrested? Sure. Is it probable that you'd be able to sue the arresting officer in his individual capacity and win your case? I think so. Is it possible that you'd be found guilty even if you followed the law perfectly? Yeah, look at Theseus.
    Last edited by bigtoe416; 10-05-2010 at 03:52 PM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Bottom line - ANY problems with legally owned or imported magazine - call the CalGuns Foundation hotline posted above. They will make it go away.

  14. #14
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    I thought my post was accurate, and still do. Having purchased (therefore possessed) my "high cap" mags (which really aren't HIGH cap) in CA before the ban they are lawful for me to return with and carry due to the exception for that.

    While I didn't quote the black letter law, I know I have that exemption and when in CA I carry a copy of the appropriate CA codes which includes it.


    Yes my outright banned weapon is the Judge. With the correct SD ammo it's a pretty good weapon as long as you don't have a lemon. Have to try it out on the range enough to be confident in the particular one you get (if you don't live in CA).

    My AR 10 is a Remington R-25 (DPMS manufactured). I will NOT bring it to CA until the Constitution is restored as I have no interest in carrying a "heavy" weapon like it with "mini mags" (10 rounders) in it when my 1984 scoped trapper in 45 LC with handloads or my Weatherby 30-06 can handle any hunting needs. And while Remington is the weapons manufacturer of record, I have no doubt that it's DPMS lineage would create problems. I love my rifle and wouldn't subject it to being in the hands of the polezi for the amount of time that it would take to MAYBE get it back, nor wish to endure the "hospitality" of the CA Dept of Corrections "housing" facilities.
    Last edited by We-the-People; 10-05-2010 at 05:23 PM.

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    It is for this reason why I never plan to enter the DPRK as I go everywhere with my weapon. I cannot legitimately prove that I possessed the magazine prior to the ban going into effect. If I entered Cali with my XD .45 with 13 rd magazine and got pulled over -- Id be scared out of my skin. I know the whole rights deal, but it wouldn't take much for an officer in CA to figure out that I was scared about something. Id have to enter Cali with the mags and or gun disassembled to be legal. And i do not know if there are 10 rd magazines for my particular XD: 4 inch barrel, standard is a 13 rd mag. To my knowledge, no one has been prosecuted under this law because it is hard to enforce, but I'm not one to tempt fate.

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    Cool Standard in AZ

    Quote Originally Posted by acmariner99 View Post
    It is for this reason why I never plan to enter the DPRK as I go everywhere with my weapon. I cannot legitimately prove that I possessed the magazine prior to the ban going into effect. If I entered Cali with my XD .45 with 13 rd magazine and got pulled over -- Id be scared out of my skin. I know the whole rights deal, but it wouldn't take much for an officer in CA to figure out that I was scared about something. Id have to enter Cali with the mags and or gun disassembled to be legal. And i do not know if there are 10 rd magazines for my particular XD: 4 inch barrel, standard is a 13 rd mag. To my knowledge, no one has been prosecuted under this law because it is hard to enforce, but I'm not one to tempt fate.
    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/a...p/t-55126.html (please see wutzu)

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    Well, considering that I have an XD .45 compact, it would be safe to assume to that it was made well after 2000. I purchased it this past summer. The nice thing about the compact is that it is available with the 10 and the 13. I use to have a Ruger P89 with the 10rd and a 25rd. When I had an incident where the neighbor called the police and htey showed up, the look on their face was priceless. 1 of the officers was looking over the gun while the other noticed the 25rd and picked it up. The look of shock and aww was funny. This was in California with the Sacramento County Sherrifs dept. I got the typical "you should call us instead of answering the door with a gun" speech. They left without incident and just that warning.

    I do appriciate the info you guys have given and the above number will definately go into my phone while I'm there.

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by None2Slow View Post
    Well, considering that I have an XD .45 compact, it would be safe to assume to that it was made well after 2000. I purchased it this past summer. The nice thing about the compact is that it is available with the 10 and the 13. I use to have a Ruger P89 with the 10rd and a 25rd. When I had an incident where the neighbor called the police and htey showed up, the look on their face was priceless. 1 of the officers was looking over the gun while the other noticed the 25rd and picked it up. The look of shock and aww was funny. This was in California with the Sacramento County Sherrifs dept. I got the typical "you should call us instead of answering the door with a gun" speech. They left without incident and just that warning.

    I do appriciate the info you guys have given and the above number will definately go into my phone while I'm there.
    I would do both, call 911, then answer the door with a gun. They clean up the mess when they get there, if necessary.
    Last edited by Gundude; 10-05-2010 at 10:16 PM.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    It wasnt that bad, just somebody knocked on the door and when I asked who it was, I got no answer so I grabbed my gun. I again asked who it was and got no answer, so I approched the door and opened it with my body behind it. The guy on the other side asked if I had a Siamese cat. I said that I don't know what it was. He then asked if it had a red color. I replied that it has a flea collar. I dont know what color it is. At that point he saw the gun. He reached behind his back and started to pull something out. At this time I had my gun leveled at his chest. He produced a cell phone from behind his back. He then called and stated that when he came over to complain about my cat, I pulled a gun on him. He tried to give my description, at which time I produced my ID and let him give them all the correct info. maybe 5 minutes later the Sherrif showed up. I stated my story and what had happend when he knocked and how I answered the door. When they got there I had all my reciepts laid out along with a few "targets" with some well placed rounds. They told me that the guy was complaining because my cat pee'd on his door. Ohh and the guy was later arrested for possesion of methamphetamines..... go figure.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by None2Slow View Post
    It wasnt that bad, just somebody knocked on the door and when I asked who it was, I got no answer so I grabbed my gun. I again asked who it was and got no answer, so I approched the door and opened it with my body behind it. The guy on the other side asked if I had a Siamese cat. I said that I don't know what it was. He then asked if it had a red color. I replied that it has a flea collar. I dont know what color it is. At that point he saw the gun. He reached behind his back and started to pull something out. At this time I had my gun leveled at his chest. He produced a cell phone from behind his back. He then called and stated that when he came over to complain about my cat, I pulled a gun on him. He tried to give my description, at which time I produced my ID and let him give them all the correct info. maybe 5 minutes later the Sherrif showed up. I stated my story and what had happend when he knocked and how I answered the door. When they got there I had all my reciepts laid out along with a few "targets" with some well placed rounds. They told me that the guy was complaining because my cat pee'd on his door. Ohh and the guy was later arrested for possesion of methamphetamines..... go figure.
    A cop would have shot him when he reached behind his back, and it would have been a good shoot.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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