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Am I Being Detained?

TheJeepster

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
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95
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Call 911 and report that you are trying to eat your lunch and four men claiming to be police officers are harassing you.

Careful with the above logic. I thought this would be a good idea too until I read the transcript of Josh's arrest in Vancouver. He called 911 because he thought the cop(s) where harrassing him and look where he is now. Cops are for cops...period.

Now I would like to think in Tom's position I would have again asked if I was being detained when the other cops showed up. If I got a no answer, avoidance of the question or silence I would have ignored the a-holes and went about my business like they weren't even there. I would have made THEM escalate the self-imposed confrontation they were conducting.

Of course another way wold be to ask if they wanted to sit down and have a chat about guns and open carry, civil rights and the tough job officers face today. If they say no then techincally they ended the voluntary conversation. :)
 

joejoejoe

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
319
Location
Vancouver, WA
You can leave and then come back with 40 armed men in protest.... :) Tom sort of did that, but he stayed. It is a different story if you are grocery shopping. In which case I would just carry on my business until the officers left me alone. At some point, you have to keep asking "am I free to go about my private affairs?" They can ignore it all they want, and they can not answer your question, but until they say those words, "We are detaining you" or they physically stop you (which you should never resist - especially with a gun on your hip), you just keep on truckin'.

If I were at Starbucks trying to enjoy a coffee, I would exercise the 5th. We all get the urge to talk back, which will lead to giving up. If you feel the need to talk, just ask "Is the consensual? Am I being detained? Am I free to go?" Don't tell them your rights or quote the law over and over again!

Joe~
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
I guess my point is "At what point do you give up your rights?"

I won't leave if I'm not ready its part of their bullying tactics, it would be best to state and have it on the recording, that "I am done with this "consensual contact' any further questions or contact made by you will be considered harassment".

That way if they continue have a clear case against them. Not that anything is clear when it comes to our messed up justice system.
 

Ruby

Regular Member
Joined
May 5, 2010
Messages
1,201
Location
Renton, Washington, USA
I think Tom did the right thing for his particular situation. Had he tried to leave before the "back up" arrived, the first SO may have detained him right there in his car where he wouldn't have the witnesses he had inside. It's very easy for us to say what we would do, but in truth, we won't know what we will do until that situation presents itself. I'm all for discussing here on the forum so that those of us who haven't had a run in with a LEO can learn from those who have. I think it's shameful when LEOs become bullies and try to enforce their "interpretation" of the law. LEOs are duty bound to abide by the laws whether they agree with the laws or not.
 

Ruby

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May 5, 2010
Messages
1,201
Location
Renton, Washington, USA
I won't leave if I'm not ready its part of their bullying tactics, it would be best to state and have it on the recording, that "I am done with this "consensual contact' any further questions or contact made by you will be considered harassment".

That way if they continue have a clear case against them. Not that anything is clear when it comes to our messed up justice system.

It's not a justice system anymore, it's a legal system and sometimes I have my doubts about that!
 

amzbrady

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
3,521
Location
Marysville, Washington, USA
I had thought I heard it the first time that I listened to the audio, and just listened to it again to be sure. at 1:05 the officer says that Tom is being detained. I think at that point he could not just get up and leave while being detained. What gets me and makes me think he was best just staying and complying at that point is what was said at 1:46.

Edited, Sorry 1:03 - 1:04 was detainment, not 1:05
 
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BigDave

Opt-Out Members
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
3,456
Location
Yakima, Washington, USA
Tom did real well in his incident, he was confronted with a request that the officer had no authority to demand and after seeing his insistence he choose to provide ID, was this giving up his rights, NO.
Did he defuse the situation to take it up later, YES.
Did he loose anything in going this route, NO.
Is Tom any less of a Man or Do the Cause Harm, NO, he actually was a good representative for all involved.

There are many battles in a war, ending one to pursue another venue where more can be accomplished is a good thing, he was not cited nor arrested nor portrayed as a less then desirable person.
 

Phssthpok

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
1,026
Location
, ,
Trigger Dr said:
"Am I being deyained?"
"No"
"I hope you have a nice day officer, you are dismissed."


My personal favorite.

Personally, I'm getting so fed up with 'officers' overstepping their authority with such requests that I fear I might slip up and tell 'em to "piss off" instead.
 

jbone

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,230
Location
WA
Call 911 and report that you are trying to eat your lunch and four men claiming to be police officers are harassing you.

That's it call the WSP, thier mission statment says:

Every employee is a critical member of a team committed to: "Respecting and protecting individual rights"
 

gsx1138

Regular Member
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
882
Location
Bremerton, Washington, United States
That's it call the WSP, thier mission statment says:

Every employee is a critical member of a team committed to: "Respecting and protecting individual rights"

What do you do when you call 911 though? Request they send the WSP? It's not going to do you any good if the guys hassling you get on the radio and say they'll take the call.
 

ShooterMcGavin

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
208
Location
Location, Location
Actually, calling 911 might be a good thing from this point of view... Mention to the 911 dispatcher that you are being questioned by men who claim to be officers. When the dispatcher confirms that they are real officers, simply state "ok, I am going to stay on the line so that this conversation is recorded through 911 - ...I will ask again, am I being detained officers?" and hold the phone in your hand. I wonder if their demeanor would change.
 

joeroket

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
3,339
Location
Everett, Washington, USA
When you call 911 you can request they transfer the call to what ever jurisdiction you want. I have called 911 before and requested WSP. The operator will transfer you to a WSP 911 operator. I am not sure how they would respond to a call about a sheriff's deputy unlawful detaining a person though, that is the jurisdiction of the FBI as they investigate civil rights violations.
 
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amzbrady

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
3,521
Location
Marysville, Washington, USA
They would probably jump all over it. Grays Harbor Sheriffs and Washington State Patrol act nice in each others presence, but you should hear what they say about each other off record when talking about work and jurisdiction. There have been times on an accident scene that I felt like I should have been serving a beer or charging a phsyciatrist rate, for letting them vent about each other.

Wonder if they would get mad if you raised your voice at them.

"Am I being detained?"
"no"
"Good day sir..."
"I need ID"
"I said good day sir..."

course I guess non of this matters cause after am I being detained the officer told Tom that he was being detained, and leaving wasnt an option while being detained.
 

Trigger Dr

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2007
Messages
2,760
Location
Wa, ,
"Am I being detained?"
"no"
"Good day sir..."
"I need ID"
"I said good day sir..."


Officer, you also have the right to remain silent....I suggest that you exercise it.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
It's not a justice system anymore, it's a legal system and sometimes I have my doubts about that!

It really isn't a legal system any more since they seem to feel they are above the law and like in Josh's case, will ignore the law.

I was told one time by an officer of the court the truest statement I have heard "It is a processing center", they are no longer concerned with what is legal or just. They process you.
 
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