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Thread: Confessions of a police officer

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    Confessions of a police officer

    Something I think about when pondering potential LEO encounters:

    http://policelink.monster.com/traini...officer?page=1

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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    Something I think about when pondering potential LEO encounters:

    http://policelink.monster.com/traini...officer?page=1
    I suspect EMT's have some pretty bad days. but don't have the power to ruin your day by violating your rights or worse.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    True, but EMT's aren't generally shot at or employed to pursue armed criminals.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    The two in the picture should learn to salute. Sometimes a cop's life isn't milk and cookies. Too bad. Get another job. If you sign up, you sign up. I remember SEA very well. We lost on average 100 young men a week for 11 years, 52 weeks a year--5000+ men every year for 11 years. Add it up. None of them had a nice day. None of them got off on violating someone's rights because they were 'above the law.' They died with the oath of "defending and protecting the Constitution of the United States" as something they really meant, not something they felt free to ignore to boost their egos. To a far lesser degree in terms of numbers, they still are dying in another shithole on the other side of the world. You want to be a cop? Be one. An honorable, ethical upholder of the oath you took. Then there won't be any "bad cop" stories and you won't be called a pig or worse. Tough job sometimes, but so are a lot of others. And don't tell me about "memorial" walls. There are 57,000 names on the one that matters to me.
    Last edited by Gunslinger; 10-05-2010 at 03:09 PM.

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    to the OP, awesome post. thank you for sharing.
    Last edited by Castle; 10-05-2010 at 02:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    They died with the oath of "defending and protecting the Constitution of the United States" as something they really meant, not something they felt free to ignore to boost their egos.
    I saw a speculation that the reason incidence of "bad cops" is on the rise is that those who would be "good cops" are serving in the military. Someone pointed out about Denver specifically, Denver doesn't treat its cops well so the good ones leave for other agencies and the ones left are the ones not hirable anywhere else.

    Nothing excuses a bad cop. Nothing excuses a bad soldier. But before I call ANYONE either, I'm going to consider the **** they have to deal with in "another day at the office" under fire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    True, but EMT's aren't generally shot at or employed to pursue armed criminals.
    Do you know of police that are frequently shot at? Around here, they send a SWAT team for a document search. Seriously. Fairfax County Virginia routinely sends SWAT on all search warrants, including day care occupancy investigations. Maryland SWAT is dispatched an average of 4.6 times a day, with one true hostage situation [Discovery Channel] taking place in recent history.

    Nationwide, 45 police officers have died of gunshot related wounds as of 10-05-10.
    Of the police killed by gun fire, there were some killed by friendly fire:
    NEW YORK — A plainclothes policeman who drew his gun while chasing someone he had found rummaging through his car was shot and killed by a fellow officer who was driving by and saw the pursuit, the police commissioner said.

    Nationwide, 59 police officers have died from traffic related accidents as of 10-05-10.

    Of the police officers killed from traffic related accidents, a Pennsylvania State Police corporal who died in a wrong-way crash on the Schuylkill Expressway had a blood-alcohol level three times the legal threshold for intoxication at the time of the crash.

    Police officers in the United States have the highest rate of alcoholism and spousal abuse than any other occupation.

    This past Sunday, October 3, the National Fallen Firefighters Foundation held the
    2010 National Fallen Firefighters Memorial Service Honors. They memorialized 105 Fallen Firefighters.

    Its a hard job. So is being a high voltage power line repairman. I haven't encountered many linemen assaulting customers or abusing their authority. You want to know drama? Go up in a aerial lift bucket about 40 foot in a driving rain and sleet storm in the dark to mess with thousands of volts of electricity. See if they have a parade for you when you fix the problem, or send units from a six state area when one of your co-workers gets zapped to a crisp. See if the citizens will be understanding if you beat a pregnant women because you are frustrated, had a hard day.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    I saw a speculation that the reason incidence of "bad cops" is on the rise is that those who would be "good cops" are serving in the military. Someone pointed out about Denver specifically, Denver doesn't treat its cops well so the good ones leave for other agencies and the ones left are the ones not hirable anywhere else.

    Nothing excuses a bad cop. Nothing excuses a bad soldier. But before I call ANYONE either, I'm going to consider the **** they have to deal with in "another day at the office" under fire.
    Interesting notion. I wonder how many good or bad cops as a percentage are former military. That would be an interesting statistic. And a telling one either way.
    A cop having a bad day and acting like a butthead is not a "bad" cop so long as he still performs his duties in an honorable way. And I readily acknowledge they deal with the scum of society often enough to affect anyone to one degree or another. I wouldn't be the kind of cop that a child molester would want questioning him. But, with higher granted power comes higher responsibility and actions to a higher standard. If that can't be accepted by the individual, they are in the wrong job. And they need to be separated from it one way or another for everyone's well being.

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    Regular Member Tomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    I remember SEA very well. We lost on average 100 young men a week for 11 years, 52 weeks a year--5000+ men every year for 11 years. Add it up. None of them had a nice day. None of them got off on violating someone's rights because they were 'above the law.' They died with the oath of "defending and protecting the Constitution of the United States" as something they really meant, not something they felt free to ignore to boost their egos.
    . . .
    And don't tell me about "memorial" walls. There are 57,000 names on the one that matters to me.
    And there should probably be more. I suspect the number we lost after we came back home, lost to the things that happened to them in SEA, was nearly as high as those who never made it home. The suicide rate, drug deaths, and homelessness due to an inability to cope any more among returnees was fierce.

    Even those who survived had their lives forever changed in many ways, and lost something of themselves in SEA.

    At the very least, we left our innocence there.

    Sorry, Gunslinger, you pushed one of my buttons. I'll just end by saying I agree.
    No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: The officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets. -- Edward Abbey

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    That isn't a confession. That is a public-relations rebuttal.

    A real confession would explain why:
    • she doesn't do something effective about the Blue Wall of Silence, or why she didn't do it sooner.
    • she didn't slap down hard the rookie who pushed too hard during a consensual encounter.
    • she demanded to see ID from a suspect when she had no lawful authority for the demand.
    • she stopped someone for a burned out tail light or similar trivial issue, and then went on a fishing expedition, wasting a citizen's time
    • drove fast, or made strong starts in a powerful car unnecessarily when taxpayers have to pay upwards of three dollars a gallon for the gas she was wasting.
    • etc.
    Something like that would be a confession. Not this smaltzy mess that gives justifications. The mere presence of the justifications proves its not a confession.

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    Regular Member maclean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    I remember SEA very well. We lost on average 100 young men a week for 11 years, 52 weeks a year--5000+ men every year for 11 years. Add it up. None of them had a nice day. None of them got off on violating someone's rights because they were 'above the law.' They died with the oath of "defending and protecting the Constitution of the United States" as something they really meant, not something they felt free to ignore to boost their egos.
    That's a remarkably rosy bit of history revision.

    You probably really meant and believed in "defending and protecting the Constitution of the United States" just like a lot of LEOs do. I take you at your word.

    Like a lot of LEO's, you probably think the best out of most of the men you served with.

    However, some of the men that fought and died in Vietnam didn't volunteer. Some of them were drafted, some of them were voluntold to avoid jail, and some of them were likely not the best our society had to offer.

    Folks interested in history often make angels out of their compatriots and demonize groups they don't like.

    It usually pisses off non-thinkers in both groups to have that called upon.

    LEO's - like soldiers, airmen, sailors and Marines - are people.
    Last edited by maclean; 10-06-2010 at 12:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    SNIP - like soldiers, airmen, sailors and marines - are people.
    That's Marines with a capital "M" to you, buster.

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    Regular Member maclean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    That's Marines with a capital "M" to you, buster.
    I repaired it, sir.
    Last edited by maclean; 10-06-2010 at 12:21 AM.

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    Regular Member Tomas's Avatar
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    I'm not Gunslinger but...

    Mac, not all the services had conscription troops (draftees) as some only took volunteers, and screened them fairly well.

    Maybe I was lucky in being in an all volunteer unit with a bunch of folks who had clearances to even be allowed to train for the group. My guys weren't dragged into the service kicking and screaming, they weren't there to keep from going to jail, and yet I still lost 'em. They bled and died same as the draftees.

    I do paint my guys with a different and rosier palette than you possibly paint them, Mac, but personally I will trust the colors I use more than I trust yours - I was there, I lived it.

    For some of us it is not just history.
    No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: The officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets. -- Edward Abbey

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    That isn't a confession. That is a public-relations rebuttal.

    A real confession would explain why:
    • she doesn't do something effective about the Blue Wall of Silence, or why she didn't do it sooner.
    • she didn't slap down hard the rookie who pushed too hard during a consensual encounter.
    • she demanded to see ID from a suspect when she had no lawful authority for the demand.
    • she stopped someone for a burned out tail light or similar trivial issue, and then went on a fishing expedition, wasting a citizen's time
    • drove fast, or made strong starts in a powerful car unnecessarily when taxpayers have to pay upwards of three dollars a gallon for the gas she was wasting.
    • etc.
    Something like that would be a confession. Not this smaltzy mess that gives justifications. The mere presence of the justifications proves its not a confession.
    +1

    It was an interesting read, and worth remembering-but in no way was it a confession of any kind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomas View Post
    Mac, not all the services had conscription troops (draftees) as some only took volunteers, and screened them fairly well.
    Correct, only just under 40% of infantry forces in Vietnam were draftees, and nothing about being drafted means anyone is less of a good soldier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomas View Post
    Maybe I was lucky in being in an all volunteer unit with a bunch of folks who had clearances to even be allowed to train for the group. My guys weren't dragged into the service kicking and screaming, they weren't there to keep from going to jail, and yet I still lost 'em. They bled and died same as the draftees.
    My point was that everyone bleeds and dies in uniforms - we can't say with a blanket statement that any one group is flawless. History - real facts - tell us that there were misfits in southeast Asia just like there are misfits among LEOs and among people serving today.

    I've met them in both uniforms as a military police officer and civilian LEO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomas View Post
    For some of us it is not just history.
    For a lot of people who served it isn't just history. It isn't history for me - in either uniform - and still I recognize people in both of those uniforms have flaws.

    It seems that folks love to rag on LEO's, but god forbid anyone point out a flaw in someone in the other uniforms or hell descends.

    I don't think anyone is above reproach.

    By the way, thank you for your service.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    That's a remarkably rosy bit of history revision.

    You probably really meant and believed in "defending and protecting the Constitution of the United States" just like a lot of LEOs do. I take you at your word.

    Like a lot of LEO's, you probably think the best out of most of the men you served with.

    However, some of the men that fought and died in Vietnam didn't volunteer. Some of them were drafted, some of them were voluntold to avoid jail, and some of them were likely not the best our society had to offer.

    Folks interested in history often make angels out of their compatriots and demonize groups they don't like.

    It usually pisses off non-thinkers in both groups to have that called upon.

    LEO's - like soldiers, airmen, sailors and Marines - are people.
    "History revision"? As I was there and you weren't, your opinion has limited value. Most were probably draftees; many volunteers would have greatly preferred to not be there, myself included. But we all were. We didn't get a note from a shrink, claim we were homosexual or crawl on our bellies to Canada. And those whose names are on the wall call to mind Henry V: "for any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother, be he ne're so vile, this day shall gentle his condition. And gentlemen now abed in England shall think themselves accursed, and hold their manhoods cheap that they were not there, whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispan's day." What part of the quote applies to you? I don't recall anyone saying cops weren't people. And in fact I've spoken in fair balance of cops who do the job with honor and integrity on this thread. Even allowed for a decent cop having a bad day, but still being a decent cop. But when it comes to the Wall, it doesn't matter how the name got there, or how "vile" he was before. WE all gave some; he gave all.

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    Regular Member maclean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    But when it comes to the Wall, it doesn't matter how the name got there, or how "vile" he was before.
    Do you apply that logic to this wall, too?



    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    What part of the quote applies to you?
    I wasn't alive for that one Mr. Gunslinger, just like my sons weren't alive for mine.
    Last edited by maclean; 10-06-2010 at 01:44 PM.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    Do you apply that logic to this wall, too?





    I wasn't alive for that one Mr. Gunslinger, just like my sons weren't alive for mine.
    While the quote is most closely associated with Vietnam, "Band of Brothers" WWII TV show notwithstanding, it applies to any men who served in actual combat. As I recall, I thanked you for your service in another thread, as well.
    Sorry, can't pull up your image on this computer. If it is, as I suspect, a Police memorial to those who died in the line of duty, it will have much more meaning to you than to me. Just as the Wall means much more to me. That being said, we have lost several officers over the past few years here in COS. They died doing their sworn duty, and I respect that and mourn their deaths. They seemed like fine young men. That's one reason I contribute to slain officers' funds. Just like I do to numerous Veterans groups. I don't "hate" cops. I hate those who would trample our rights, and that is most certainly not exclusive to LEOs. Look at the boob in the whitehouse and his pos "Attorney" general for starters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    While the quote is most closely associated with Vietnam, "Band of Brothers" WWII TV show notwithstanding, it applies to any men who served in actual combat. As I recall, I thanked you for your service in another thread, as well.
    Sorry, can't pull up your image on this computer. If it is, as I suspect, a Police memorial to those who died in the line of duty, it will have much more meaning to you than to me. Just as the Wall means much more to me. That being said, we have lost several officers over the past few years here in COS. They died doing their sworn duty, and I respect that and mourn their deaths. They seemed like fine young men. That's one reason I contribute to slain officers' funds. Just like I do to numerous Veterans groups. I don't "hate" cops. I hate those who would trample our rights, and that is most certainly not exclusive to LEOs. Look at the boob in the whitehouse and his pos "Attorney" general for starters.
    Sounds like our issue may be communication then, because I think we agree more than not.

    I'll seek to clarify first when in doubt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    By the way, thank you for your service.
    Thank you.

    I was back nearly 30 years before I had that said to me the first time... It was an emotional moment.

    Both you, Mac, and those of us who wore or wear other uniforms, recognize our brothers in arms. To us they are different from everyone else, they are our brothers. Good, bad, indifferent, they are our brothers.

    You will support and defend your brothers as I will support and defend mine. That is simply the way things are.

    In the military we 'take care of our own.' If they die, we grieve, if they do well we are proud, if they do badly, we correct. We don't turn it over to someone else to handle, we don't turn them out, we own them and their actions, we correct and do penance.

    It is difficult to admit when one of your own has 'done bad,' and that seems especially difficult for law enforcement for some reason, but that admission, that ownership of the bad acts and the honest efforts to not let it happen again are worth MUCH more than any and all attempts to explain away, hide from, or disown what happened.

    IMHO LEOs need to learn that humility, that honest ownership of the bad acts, in order for them to be corrected. Every time I see excuses, rationalizations, cover-ups, overly involved tales of what ifs and if onlys, I cringe. I cringe because I know it means the problem will not be corrected and it will just happen again.

    I'm getting too far off topic here, but let's face it, the root is in ethics and morality - and this "confession" of a police officer is anything but.

    Take care.

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    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    That isn't a confession. That is a public-relations rebuttal.

    A real confession would explain why:
    • she doesn't do something effective about the Blue Wall of Silence, or why she didn't do it sooner.
    • she didn't slap down hard the rookie who pushed too hard during a consensual encounter.
    • she demanded to see ID from a suspect when she had no lawful authority for the demand.
    • she stopped someone for a burned out tail light or similar trivial issue, and then went on a fishing expedition, wasting a citizen's time
    • drove fast, or made strong starts in a powerful car unnecessarily when taxpayers have to pay upwards of three dollars a gallon for the gas she was wasting.
    • etc.
    Something like that would be a confession. Not this smaltzy mess that gives justifications. The mere presence of the justifications proves its not a confession.
    And your opinion means exactly What?

    not much

    The only people who put their lives on the line as often or more often are firefighters and active duty military in a combat zone.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

    Politicians should serve two terms, one in office and one in prison.(borrowed from RioKid)

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCurlyWolf View Post
    And your opinion means exactly What?

    not much

    The only people who put their lives on the line as often or more often are firefighters and active duty military in a combat zone.

    Ummmmm. Your near hero-worship support of cops is showing.

    The simple fact that she confesses to nothing more than the most inane non-sins shows its not really a confession. Add that she has an excuse for the non-sins, and she is not even really all that contrite about even those. This isn't a confession. Its a public-relations back-patting to puff themselves up. "Oooohhhhh. See all the terrible things we've seen. You don't see them in your daily life, so you should feel grateful. And, it would be especially helpful if your gratitude was so strong you overlook our refusal to police our own ranks, and the fact that we have been the agents behind the deterioration of your 4th and 5th Amendment rights since about 1840."

    Police don't even make the top ten of those who put their lives on the line, as I recall. Pilots, electric linesman, and I believe cab drivers are in the top ten. I think even roofers made the top ten. Imagine that. A guy puts his life on the line so I can be dry. Or, so I can have electric heat.

    Edited to add: Here is a link to a page that cites Bureau of Labor Statistics for 2009:

    http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...bs-in-america/
    Last edited by Citizen; 10-08-2010 at 02:44 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomas View Post
    Thank you.

    I was back nearly 30 years before I had that said to me the first time... It was an emotional moment.
    Although being in the Air force and not having to go into Vietnam, I did serve in that era. I still haven't been thanked, but that is ok. The vets of that era were not given the same respect they get now. I did have brother-in-laws, an uncle, and friends that went to Vietnam. My uncle came back with white hair, One of my brother-in-laws walks with a limp, and the other one died of pancreatic cancer caused by agent orange. Some of my friends didn't make it.

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