OPEN or CONCEAL Carry and Law Enforcement

With the right to BEAR arms getting closer to being addressed and resolved in the Federal and State Courts, it is interesting to examine what is taking place across the country and here in Connecticut.

With more and more individuals beginning to carry firearms OPENLY and CONCEALED, it appears that members of law enforcement are attempting to muddy the waters with criminal arrests for legal conduct.

I will not attempt to list the situations I am currently aware of but will make a factual statement.

Law enforcement is beginning to arrest law abiding citizens who carry OPENLY or CONCEALED with or without, (Depending on the state you live in), a permit to do so.

Police officers across the country are responding to "PERSON WITH A GUN" calls made by other citizens who are not accustom to seeing armed private citizens going about their daily activities. Often when faced with legal activity, members of law enforcement still make arrests for a variety of different criminal charges, (Breach of Peace, Disorderly Conduct etc.), depending on the state where the incident occurs.

I am beginning to believe that this is taking place by design on the part of untrained members of law enforcement who don't know how to handle the situation when they arrive on the scene.

I am currently aware of at least 3 incidents in Connecticut, one in Massachusetts, one in Madison, Wisconsin involving 5 individuals, one in New Mexico (The St. John case), several in Pennsylvania, at least three in California and one in the state of Washington. I'm sure there are more that have gone unnoticed to those of use who discuss firearm issues.

I believe that members of law enforcement will begin to use their arrest powers to circumvent past and future Civil Court decisions that have been or will be rendered regarding our right to BEAR arms.

The question that the various Gun Rights organizations must begin to address is very simple.

WHAT GOOD WILL THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS BE IF THOSE WHO DO SO ARE CONTINUALLY FACED WITH ARREST IF SOMEONE SEES A PARTIALLY CONCEALED OR OPENLY CARRIED SIDEARM?

Those that make the decisions at the organizations that protect our firearm rights need to look into their crystal balls and plan on addressing this real world situation.

untrained members of law enforcement who don't know how to handle the situation

You said it ED. This is the problem. you said the magic word the UNTRAINED law enforcement and citizen. and the other Question. who will train and inform them? I am doing my part being a member in the CCDL and passing the word and getting involved in this movement. CARRY ON!

I was watching the news the other night and the story came on about the east hampton police chief that got fired. In attendence were a bunch of surrounding town police cheifs. One of them was interviewed and said that being a police chief is a balance of enforcing the law and politics. I am fully convinced that most leo know the law just refuse to obey it and are enforcing their own personal agendas. Imo leo need to be reminded of their job duties and it needs to be done publically so the general public who have grown up being told the cops will defend you and protect you can come to the realization that cops investigate crimes that happen and keep the streets safe for motorists, not become their personal security guards.

With regard to the cases here in Wisconsin (waaay more than just the Madison 5 you listed above),
we've been working under the premise that hitting the officers & cities with expensive lawsuits & bad
publicity is a good way to help them remember the rules.

About 2 years ago someone was arrested in his front yard, planting a tree, after a neighbor called
police to ask if it was legal for him to be armed in his own front yard. In court, the neighbor testified
for the open carrier. The carrier got a judgment against the city, and prompted our attorney general to
issue a memo saying that OC by itself is legal and is not disorderly conduct. Despite that, the police
continue to show up at his house & harass him, once even while he was doing a TV interview. One
officer was stupid enough to admit that if the cameras hadn't been there, they would probably have
taken him to the ground & handcuffed him!

About a year ago someone was arrested on his own front porch because he refused to identify himself
or answer questions from officers about why he was armed. They claimed he might have been involved
in the "shots fired against raccoon" call they were investigating, but the audio taken by his wife while
they were questioning & arresting him clearly showed that was false & the officers knew it. The carrier
got a judgment against the city.

On 04JUL this year I was arrested after (legally, peacefully) OCing during a church service. Someone
at the church called police to ask if what I was doing was legal, specifically said I was not being
threatening, etc. They showed up w/ 6 cars, pointed guns at me, handcuffed me, arrested me... We've
finalized the federal civil rights suit which should be filed in the next couple weeks.

Then there's the Madison 5, whom you've read about. The gal who called police to ask if what they
were doing was legal (see a pattern here?) told the calltaker that the men were not being threatening,
the guns were openly holstered, they weren't doing anything wrong... Yet police showed up in force.

We also have a suit in the works for a guy who was OCing on a bicycle & police claim he was in a school
zone (1000' from the edge of any school property), which is currently illegal in WI, and currently being
challenged in court as being overly broad & restrictive.

And once the DC charges against the Madison 5 are taken care of, there will be suits (or maybe they'll
combine into one suit) for the civil rights violations against the 5 guys involved.

So what's working for us here is to hit the criminal officers & their departments with expensive civil rights
suits and publicity. Getting the word out to other citizens that OC is legal helps, too, since they've been the
main reason police get involved.
If you want to read more about the Madison 5, & hear the call to police, it's on the main page of www.wisconsincarry.org

To MKE

To: MKEgal and anyone else with information about incidents where law enforcement confronts individuals who are legally carrying firearms.

For several different reasons I am interesting in knowing of all such incidents.

To MKEgal

On September 6th 1985 my brother Richard and I were listed to Board Midwest Express flight 105 to Atlanta out of Billy Mitchell Field and caught an earlier flight through Chicago on our way back to Connecticut.

We were to fly back to Connecticut after delivering a truck we drove from Hartford, CT. to Oshkosh, WI.

The rest is history as the flight crashed on takeoff.

It must have been the Angel that rides on my shoulder!!