right to protect property with lethal force

Citizen said:

The crucial distinction is Spartacus advocated killing the badguy for the sake preventing future suits and eliminating contradictory statements. Stop means stop. If the threat is stopped, it is stopped. Regardless of whether the badguy lives.

As I understand it, if the threat is stopped, and more shots are fired to eliminate contradictory statements, it becomes manslaughter or murder. Your state's common law (court cases) should provide the details for your state.

Wanna bet whether an anti-gun prosecutor wouldn't tack on the charge of killing a witness if he thought he had the chance to get away with it or the additional weight would pound you into negotiating a plea? I'm betting all it takes is for the shooting itself to not be justified at inception which would make the shooting a crime. Then killing the house-breaker becomes eliminating a witness to the shooter's crime.

Spartacus, for all his noise about being a responsible gun owner, is himself being hugely irresponsible. Nobody with any sense of responsibility is going to recommend that utter and dangerous nonsense.

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Frankly, if I were Spartacus, I would edit my post if possible and hope Google doesn't cache it for too long into the future. Should he ever have the need to defend himself at some point in the future, he's taking an awfully big risk by posting comments such as that in a public forum. It doesn't take much investigation these days to determine one's online identify. Should his computer be taken as part of an investigation if he were to shoot a bad guy, the possibility exists they could identify his activity here and associate him with his screen name and bring up that post in court.

None the less the law is pretty clear on what warrants lethal force and what warrants just enough force to stop the encounter (in the case of theft of personal property) while falling short of lethal or causing great bodily harm. Both of those situations are unfortunately widely open to interpretation in the eyes of a jury and in many cases it's likely to be your word against the bad guy's. It's unfortunate that the criminals are more protected than the good guy's, but that's the way it is and I think the risks of overstepping the law as it currently stands as Spartacus seems to openly suggest are far too great to even consider. So a guy breaks into my house looking to make off with my computer gear, TV, camera, whatever. If I shoot and kill this guy, you can bet at the very least I may face a costly legal battle (10k, 20k, maybe more?) and at worst I could face time in jail and get to see my son ever now and then from behind bars? No thank you.

Spartacus said:

Yah I know. I'm a HUGE disappointment to "everyone" for reminding OCers that it is a big responsibility to carry a gun.

How many weeks you been carrying now Don?

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Well I have been OCing for the past 24 years. It doesn't mean I am any better then anyone or know more either. Is the experience worth something? yes I suppose it is, to some. But then I am sure there are others here that would only cast that experience aside because they have had (in their minds) a much greater experience.

Maybe you should post your court case here on this forum Spartacus for others to see. After all if you are trying to impress on us all that we do not understand the full responsibility of what we are doing, your court case may help some to understand.

We keep hearing about this case yet we see no proof or evidence or even good educational information that comes from it. Care to elaborate?

Everybody says said:

Blah blah blah... I hate Spartacus because he's a blah blah blah and I'm only 26 but I bought a gun a week ago and I carry it now and I read a lot on the internet and I know everything. I might shoot someone any day now for p!ssing me off or stealing my stuff or even shoot a cop because they are all Nazi's infringing my rights. Blah blah blah blah blah...

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Well I say blah blah blah to you too.

XxCaMeLxxToSiSxX said:

1st. I believe that calling someone ignorant is a personal attack. where's the mod ?

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Thanks for the thought but don't sweat it. I get slammed all the time for expressing my opinion but since I don't bother the admins and whine and cry about "personal attacks" John doesn't worry about it..

I got a lot of homies on here who would set things straight if I needed it but I can handle all these yoohoos with one hand tied behind my back. Blindfolded. Hands down. No contest. Not even close.

XxCaMeLxxToSiSxX said:

1st. I believe that calling someone ignorant is a personal attack. where's the mod ?
2nd. It occurs to me that it takes a minimum of 2 to argue any point.
last. If you do not like him or his post it seems the best reaction is no action. Just a thought.

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Yeah and that is the Pot calling the Kettle Black. I have seen the way you argue with Doug in the other thread concerning his video. You are also new to the forum and just so happened to show up when several other LEO did and you continuously try to argue legal points with members here. If you don't like our answers then go research the information for yourself and quit baiting members here.

Spartacus said:

Thanks for the thought but don't sweat it. I get slammed all the time for expressing my opinion but since I don't bother the admins and whine and cry about "personal attacks" John doesn't worry about it..

I got a lot of homies on here who would set things straight if I needed it but I can handle all these yoohoos with one hand tied behind my back. Blindfolded. Hands down. No contest. Not even close.

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Hmmm so now it's your Homies against everyone else. Care to elaborate on who your homies are? care to give the information on your case so we can read up on that? Or are you just going to continue your bullying in this forum?

We all keep hearing about this big case yet there is no proof of it. Even through PM's.

J.Gleason said:

Yeah and that is the Pot calling the Kettle Black. I have seen the way you argue with Doug in the other thread concerning his video. You are also new to the forum and just so happened to show up when several other LEO did and you continuously try to argue legal points with members here. If you don't like our answers then go research the information for yourself and quit baiting members here.

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Its funny Gleason, when I point out someone is new here and shouldn't dig right in you can't stand it but hypocritically you allow yourself the same latitude. why is that?

Spartacus said:

Its funny Gleason, when I point out someone is new here and shouldn't dig right in you can't stand it but hypocritically you allow yourself the same latitude. why is that?

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Because I have a higher post count then you do and according to you that matters.

J.Gleason said:

Hmmm so now it's your Homies against everyone else. Care to elaborate on who your homies are? care to give the information on your case so we can read up on that? Or are you just going to continue your bullying in this forum?

We all keep hearing about this big case yet there is no proof of it. Even through PM's.

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COMMENTS REMOVED BY MODERATOR: Personal attack

Are you talking about my 70's arrest for OCing or my multiple felony self defense and misdemeanor case that I recently beat?

Apparently I'm officially off ignore now, right?

J.Gleason said:

Because I have a higher post count then you do and according to you that matters.

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COMMENTS REMOVED BY MODERATOR: Personal attack

J.Gleason said:

Because I have a higher post count then you do and according to you that matters.

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Spartacus said:

It does matter unless you are a postwhore...

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Oh yah...

Spartacus said:

assphincter says what?

Are you talking about my 70's arrest for OCing or my multiple felony self defense and misdemeanor case that I recently beat?

Apparently I'm officially off ignore now, right?

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Well if either are legitimate then both. And I don't know about officially being off ignore, it doesn't seem to stop your name calling anyways, I.E. Post Whore or Ass sphincter. But then we have come to not expect any less from you then the insults and name calling.

As someone else had posted earlier I sure hope that the new comers here do understand that you do not represent any of us here in OCDO or WCI, no matter how much table time you have. Quite frankly I find it odd that either organization would allow you to represent at any events with your past behavior here in this forum. But as long as you are attacking the certain few that you are on a continual basis I am sure there are some members of both organizations that will sit back and let you do their dirty work for them. Of course those are probably the "Homies" that you referred too and I better watch myself or maybe they will get me.

By the way as far as names go Spartucus, To spar is to fight or fighting and Tukhus is yiddish for for Butt or underneath. I guess you know what that then makes you!

J.Gleason said:

We all keep hearing about this big case yet there is no proof of it. Even through PM's.

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You really think I'm gonna put my vitals up on here? lol

PM Hubert if you like and he will tell you I'm for real.

Spartacus said:

It does matter unless you are a postwhore...

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So let me get this straight, if someone has less posts than you, he doesn't know what he is talking about, but if he has more, he's a postwhore? How does that make any sense?

J.Gleason said:

Well if either are legitimate then both. And I don't know about officially being off ignore, id doesn't seem to stop your name calling anyways, I.E. Post Whore

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COMMENTS REMOVED BY MODERATOR: Personal attack

Spartacus said:

It does matter unless you are a postwhore...

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I seem to recall a comment from you that would be a meaningless comment (like half your posts seem to be - without meaning) now that you proclaim post count doesn't matter (which it doesn't). So I'll have to agree with you on this one (grudgingly...) but don't let your Internet ego grow and start to believe I think any more highly of you (I don't). You conduct yourself on these forums, with a select group of others, like a complete ass in just about every thread you participate in.

But I suppose I'm "new here and shouldn't dig in right away" (out of curiosity, do you support 2A rights but not 1A rights then?), that's of course assuming the date I finally decided to register as a member here and start posting was an accurate reflection of how long I've been reading threads here as a guest.

msteinhilber said:

I
But I suppose I'm "new here and shouldn't dig in right away" (out of curiosity, do you support 2A rights but not 1A rights then?)...

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Its funny that you ask that, new person with an unspellable name. You support my 2A rights but characterize my 1A rights as being an "ass"..

Explain that bit of hypocrisy first and then we can talk.

J.Gleason said:

Well if either are legitimate then both. And I don't know about officially being off ignore, it doesn't seem to stop your name calling anyways, I.E. Post Whore or Ass sphincter. But then we have come to not expect any less from you then the insults and name calling.

As someone else had posted earlier I sure hope that the new comers here do understand that you do not represent any of us here in OCDO or WCI, no matter how much table time you have. Quite frankly I find it odd that either organization would allow you to represent at any events with your past behavior here in this forum. But as long as you are attacking the certain few that you are on a continual basis I am sure there are some members of both organizations that will sit back and let you do their dirty work for them. Of course those are probably the "Homies" that you referred too and I better watch myself or maybe they will get me.

By the way as far as names go Spartucus, To spar is to fight or fighting and Tukhus is yiddish for for Butt or underneath. I guess you know what that then makes you!

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God I can't keep up with your edits! lol Thats 3 in the last 5 minutes. Worried about John are we?

Spartacus said:

You really think I'm gonna put my vitals up on here? lol

PM Hubert if you like and he will tell you I'm for real.

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As I stated earlier,

Well if either are legitimate then both. And I don't know about officially being off ignore, it doesn't seem to stop your name calling anyways, I.E. Post Whore or Ass sphincter. But then we have come to not expect any less from you then the insults and name calling.

As someone else had posted earlier I sure hope that the new comers here do understand that you do not represent any of us here in OCDO or WCI, no matter how much table time you have. Quite frankly I find it odd that either organization would allow you to represent at any events with your past behavior here in this forum. But as long as you are attacking the certain few that you are on a continual basis I am sure there are some members of both organizations that will sit back and let you do their dirty work for them. Of course those are probably the "Homies" that you referred too and I better watch myself or maybe they will get me.

By the way as far as names go Spartucus, To spar is to fight or fighting and Tukhus is yiddish for for Butt or underneath. I guess you know what that then makes you! Pass your vitals through a PM.