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Thread: Woodcarver was shot four times in his side by officer, autopsy shows

  1. #1
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Woodcarver was shot four times in his side by officer, autopsy shows

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ooting06m.html

    Some more facts are surfacing in the case of the Native American wood carver that was shot by a Seattle Police Officer. Apparently, rather than advancing on the officer, and refusing to drop the knife as the officer ordered, the victim was not advancing or even facing the officer. Also, he was apparently wearing headphones at the time and may not have been able to hear anything the officer said.

    The Police Department is supposed to be releasing the results of their review soon. It will be interesting to see if they approach this head-on or just put the normal "spin" on it like the Police Guild President did with his comment "in general, an armed person who is standing sideways to an officer can still pose a threat."
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    In Puyallup/Pierce County...

    Pierce County sheriff’s detectives investigating the shooting of a drug suspect by a Puyallup police officer found no weapons at the shooting scene, officials said Wednesday

    Read more: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/1...#ixzz11h03KSkn
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    Now, now. We all know that policemen aren't responsible for their mistakes. The union will stand up and prevent anything from happening to the poor, helpless policeman, even if the powers that be did try to punish him for something...

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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    That sound you don't hear?

    The forming of the Thin Silent Blue Line.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Pierce County sheriff’s detectives investigating the shooting of a drug suspect by a Puyallup police officer found no weapons at the shooting scene, officials said Wednesday

    Read more: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/1...#ixzz11h03KSkn
    Alex, I'll take "what is a police execution for 500".

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    Hey, that looks like the guy who used to stand at the corner of Marion and Western (where ferry foot traffic dumps out) holding the "Smile" sign.
    Last edited by 3/325; 10-07-2010 at 05:31 PM.

  7. #7
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Lets not bash

    Let's not bash the LEO's as a whole, not everyone is perfect. You will have people trying to do the right thing and go about it the wrong way. I'm in the military and as you have scene some of our own at Fort Lewis did some bad things, but these bad apples shouldn't reflect on us as a whole. The police/military represent everybody in the country (race/religion, ect), occasionally a few will slip through the screening process. Also I've scene on this forum where a person with a knife 21 feet or closer can cover that much ground before you can draw your weapon. So a knife can be a serious threat. So I think we need to let the investigation complete before we can "convict".
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
    "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux
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  8. #8
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    Let's not bash the LEO's as a whole, not everyone is perfect. You will have people trying to do the right thing and go about it the wrong way. I'm in the military and as you have scene some of our own at Fort Lewis did some bad things, but these bad apples shouldn't reflect on us as a whole. The police/military represent everybody in the country (race/religion, ect), occasionally a few will slip through the screening process. Also I've scene on this forum where a person with a knife 21 feet or closer can cover that much ground before you can draw your weapon. So a knife can be a serious threat. So I think we need to let the investigation complete before we can "convict".
    I don't think anyone here is trying to bash LEO's as a whole. I do believe that everyone is a little tired of the "Thin Blue Line" where it pertains to their code of silence. It's not just the code of silence that gets to people, it's the added spin that starts just as soon as the "gun smoke" starts to dissipate.

    As for the so called 21 foot rule, great. That is not a rule to be applied in every case. When you are dealing with a street person that is known to be an alcoholic, is arthritic and moving slowly, and is partly deaf as well, do you just shoot because he has a knife in his hand? The term "stumble bum" was coined to describe people like the victim who are often too inebriated to stand much less cover the 21 feet in 1.5 seconds. The rules for the LEO's are the same as for us. They have to present a REAL threat before deadly force is warranted. As the ME's report said, he was not facing the officer when he was shot. That is in contradiction of the original reports where the officer claimed he was advancing on him.

    If the death was wrongful, someone should answer for it. It should be the same for LEO's as it is for us plain citizens.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  9. #9
    Regular Member maclean's Avatar
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    To play devils advocate to your constant "blue wall" rants, who is covering anything up?

    The guild is supposed to represent the officer and is not any official voice of the PD, and the PD has not released their investigation yet.

    Some dumbass spokesman initially repeated something someone told him, then got his peepee spanked for doing that.

    The Chief has been out meeting with every group in Seattle claiming to represent natives, and the shooting review team has been out collecting evidence.

    Which part is the "blue wall" so I can understand?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    SNIP To play devils advocate to your constant "blue wall" rants, who is covering anything up?...
    Your tacit acceptance and/or ineffective efforts to abolish the Blue Wall of Silence leave you with insufficient standing to criticize someone who mis-identifies it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Your tacit acceptance and/or ineffective efforts to abolish the Blue Wall of Silence leave you with insufficient standing to criticize someone who mis-identifies it.
    You should be writing campaign commercials...

  12. #12
    Regular Member maclean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Your tacit acceptance and/or ineffective efforts to abolish the Blue Wall of Silence leave you with insufficient standing to criticize someone who mis-identifies it.
    Your vituperative personal recriminations are becoming tiresome and your reading comprehension is deficient.

    Care to answer the question or should we have a vocabulary penis length contest?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    Your vituperative personal recriminations are becoming tiresome and your reading comprehension is deficient.

    Care to answer the question or should we have a vocabulary penis length contest?
    So, does that mean you do or don't support the Blue Wall of Silence?

    And, if you don't, what effective steps have you taken lately towards its abolition?

  14. #14
    Regular Member maclean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    So, does that mean you do or don't support the Blue Wall of Silence?

    And, if you don't, what effective steps have you taken lately towards its abolition?
    I don't advocate any form of silence - blue, green, red, or purple. It undermines trust.

    The second part of your question is personal and the answers are not suitable for a public forum.

    Now that you have avoided my question yet again after I suffered an insult AND answered at least one of yours....

    Care to answer my question? It wasn't intended for you but you seem to have an interest.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    I don't advocate any form of silence - blue, green, red, or purple. It undermines trust.

    The second part of your question is personal and the answers are not suitable for a public forum.

    Now that you have avoided my question yet again after I suffered an insult AND answered at least one of yours....

    Care to answer my question? It wasn't intended for you but you seem to have an interest.
    Hahahahahahaha! Evasions. And, an insulted feeling. And, a tiresome feeling. Oooooo. Hahahahahaha.

    I didn't ask if you advocated. I asked if you supported.

    Personal question not suitable for a public forum? Who are you? Serpico? If you are a latter-day Serpico, I apologize--you can PM me the details. But, if you're not, tough. The Blue Wall of Silence is entirely public in its effects. Until I hear you are doing something effective about it, you are going to hear from me every single time I see you criticize someone in the vicinity of the subject. You could have just pointed out that poster's error without the "devil's advocate" cover story and the indignation; but, no you felt the need to criticize.

    I've avoided a question? You didn't ask me a question. So, I can't have "avoided it yet again". Is this some cop assert-a-premise trick? In the material quoted above, you even acknowledge the question wasn't directed at me, thus undermining your whole assertion that I was avoiding it yet again. Are you just stupid, or do you think I am?

    And, to top it all off, you missed that in my first comment, I even said that your target mis-identified the BWS. So, here you've been making an a$$ out of yourself for several posts when I was also of the opinion that the BWS wasn't shown to be in operation in this case. My point was you had insufficient standing to criticize someone; not that the BWS was operating in the instant case.

    Hahhahahahahahahaa.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Whitney's Avatar
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    Your answer must be in the form of a question.

    What is, a dead man cant talk?
    The problem with America is stupidity.
    I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

  17. #17
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    ...It is really too hard to discuss things in a respectful manner?

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Back to the 4th Amendment....

    I will go back to my original question to the officer, the department...

    Why was contact made in the first place? There was no 911 call. The officer choose to engage the deceased. The officer choose to leave his car. The officer choose to not call back up.

    What was the RAS for the contact?
    Live Free or Die!

  19. #19
    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    I don't advocate any form of silence - blue, green, red, or purple. It undermines trust.

    The second part of your question is personal and the answers are not suitable for a public forum.

    Now that you have avoided my question yet again after I suffered an insult AND answered at least one of yours....

    Care to answer my question? It wasn't intended for you but you seem to have an interest.
    COMMENTS REMOVED BY MODERATOR: No LEO bashing

  20. #20
    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .45ACPaddy View Post
    ...It is really too hard to discuss things in a respectful manner?
    COMMENTS REMOVED BY MODERATOR: No LEO bashing

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    I will go back to my original question to the officer, the department...

    Why was contact made in the first place? There was no 911 call. The officer choose to engage the deceased. The officer choose to leave his car. The officer choose to not call back up.

    What was the RAS for the contact?

    I'm with you 100% there. This issue of unwarranted contact is what gets officers into trouble, not to mention the violation of civil rights.

    It seems the rules are simple...

    Making contact with someone for jaywalking = OK
    Making contact with someone because you don't like their T-shirt = Not OK

    Pulling over a car weaving in and out of traffic = OK
    Pulling over a car because you don't like their bumper sticker = Not OK

    Making contact with someone waving a knife around = OK
    Making contact with someone whittling wood = Not OK

    Making contact with someone with a gun IN THEIR HAND = OK
    Making contact with someone with a gun IN A HOLSTER = Not OK

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuller Malarkey View Post
    I can respect your attempts to restore civility, however, when engaging someone who's occupation is based on lies and deceit, and represents a broken and corrupt system, how much respectful treatment can be expected from the very people victimized by these traits?

    Some folks don't understand the harm of allowing rats to infest their living quarters. Some have been around long enough to learn first hand of the sickness that can be spread, efforts at building a safe environment undermined, and the things that sustain us poisoned. All by allowing a rat to co-exist with you, unchecked.
    Doesn't matter what their profession is based on. We should still remain respectful of others, even if they don't return the respect. If it's a continuing thing where just one person is speaking in a disrespectful manner, then it's a matter of forum rules being broken. Heck, I'm not even gonna get into the whole "people read this board, what would they think if they saw this?" spiel. My point stands.

  23. #23
    Regular Member maclean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Are you just stupid, or do you think I am?
    No, I don't think you're stupid.

    I think "unbalanced, mildly paranoid, and confrontational" are better descriptors.

    You're laughing maniacally about an argument on the internet.

  24. #24
    Regular Member maclean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuller Malarkey View Post
    Your presence here is a personal invasion, why shouldn't the questions put to you be personal in nature?

    And if you are involved in activity that can't be revealed on a forum, maybe you better be working in a closer supervised environment.
    The owner of the forum could, at any time, simply politely ask that I leave and I would do so immediately.

    I'm here as a citizen, and am entitled to privacy in my affairs the same way you are. I'm under no obligation to answer any question that you would not be obligated to answer.

    I am, however, restricted somewhat. There are things that if I discussed on a public internet forum I could be disciplined or even terminated.

    If that bothers you, you are free to remain bothered.

  25. #25
    Regular Member maclean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuller Malarkey View Post
    COMMENTS REMOVED BY MODERATOR: No LEO bashing
    I would choose to take out my ire on the individual who victimized me, rather than a society as a whole.

    The posts - all of them - on this board are available for everyone in the public to read. What safe, sustainable environment am I poisoning? I support your right to carry a firearm openly, and thus fit within the parameter of the membership the owner of the forum seeks to invite.

    I do like the "rat" thing you bring up frequently. I'm going to use it as an avatar.

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