• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Who needs a gun in a "bar and grill" ?

Dreamer

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
Agreed...

However, if he took one step toward ME with his bloody knife, and made eye contact, I firmly believe THAT would be a justifiable SD situation...

I think I've actually eaten at this place--if memory serves, they've got a pretty good Vietnamese menu, and it's REALLY authentic. Not many "anglos" eat there though, mostly frequented (and staffed) by REALLY recent immigrants.

Good ethnic food, but don't expect to strike up any conversations with the patrons there, unless you're fluent in Vietnamese...
 
J

Jonton

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
108
Location
Sterling, Virginia, United States
Highlander said:
You don't have too long to figure out what you're going to do though....Split-second decision.
Click to expand...

Is the knife pointed in a direction that appears threatening? Is he trying to conceal or dispose of the knife, or displaying it threateningly?

Nonetheless less my weapon will have more than likely been drawn, or at least have broken the retention the moment he came at her. At that point, over-preparedness and being paranoid are not part of the equation and it's time to consider protecting myself. Are there particular good samaritan laws in place to protect you legally if you were to fire on someone attacking another person (the victim, in this case)?
 
F

fully_armed_biker

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
463
Location
Portsmouth, Virginia, USA
The right to use deadly force to protect others being attacked with the use of deadly force is clearly established. The only thought going through my mind would be, what's beyond the attacker...if I miss, is there a possiblilty of hitting someone at a booth or table...or through a window sitting in a car at a stop light, or someone else rushing to help the person, etc? If the answer to any of those questions is "yes," then it would be, can I move myself into a postition to eliminate that risk? If I am in, or can get myself in, a position where there is no risk of hitting an innocent bystander...it would suck to be the attacker.
 
SouthernBoy

SouthernBoy

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,837
Location
Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
fully_armed_biker said:
The right to use deadly force to protect others being attacked with the use of deadly force is clearly established. The only thought going through my mind would be, what's beyond the attacker...if I miss, is there a possiblilty of hitting someone at a booth or table...or through a window sitting in a car at a stop light, or someone else rushing to help the person, etc? If the answer to any of those questions is "yes," then it would be, can I move myself into a postition to eliminate that risk? If I am in, or can get myself in, a position where there is no risk of hitting an innocent bystander...it would suck to be the attacker.
Click to expand...

When resorting to the use of justifiable deadly force and the victim accidentally hits an innocent party, he cannot be held legally responsible for this. The perp is the one who will get charged. However, the victim may possibly suffer a suit in a civil court for his actions. This by no means doesn't mean one should not exercise good judgment and prudence when and where at all possible and try to take whatever measures to minimize danger to innocent persons. But in the heat of a sudden firefight, time and a deadly encounter do not suffer hesitation and prudence, unfortunately.

INAL.
 
Last edited:
F

fully_armed_biker

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
463
Location
Portsmouth, Virginia, USA
Well, in this situation I wouldn't be the "victim," I'd be a good samaritan coming to the aid of another. Whether I could or couldn't be held legally responsible for any "incidental damage" I don't think would give much solace to the family of the victim of such incidental damage...and a responsibility I would only accept in the most dire of circumstances, like the Luby's massacre in Killeen, TX, or the MacDonald's massacre in San Ysidro, CA.

I also know I'm a pretty damned good shot so it would take extraordinary circumstances for me not to make the shot...but, I also know I have no control over what others do when pandemonium breaks out.

At the very least I would arm myself with a chair and hopefully be in a position to leave a size 10 motorcycle boot imprint on the attacker's forehead, if I were coming to the aid of another.
 
Last edited:
SouthernBoy

SouthernBoy

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,837
Location
Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
fully_armed_biker said:
Well, in this situation I wouldn't be the "victim," I'd be a good samaritan coming to the aid of another. Whether I could or couldn't be held legally responsible for any "incidental damage" I don't think would give much solace to the family of the victim of such incidental damage...and a responsibility I would only accept in the most dire of circumstances, like the Luby's massacre in Killeen, TX, or the MacDonald's massacre in San Ysidro, CA.

I also know I'm a pretty damned good shot so it would take extraordinary circumstances for me not to make the shot...but, I also know I have no control over what others do when pandemonium breaks out.

At the very least I would arm myself with a chair and hopefully be in a position to leave a size 10 motorcycle boot imprint on the attacker's forehead, if I were coming to the aid of another.
Click to expand...

The laws of defending another are essentially the same as those for defending oneself. So if the victim is not in imminent danger of serious bodily harm, or worse, one is not justified in using deadly force in their defense.

As for hitting an innocent person, I imagine that would be one of the most sinking feelings a reasonable person could experience and one which I know I hope never to experience myself... regardless of any legal protections or such. But the fact remains that when in an extreme situation, a victim has enough on his mind just trying to survive the encounter. The legal and civil business comes later... which can easily make a horrible situation that much worse.

Actually the posed question is a good one and keeps coming up on this and other sites from time to time. I tend to believe that unless someone has been through such a situation in the past, or something quite similar, they most likely don't really know how they are going to react when it is happening like right now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top