GlockRDH
Regular Member
Ive OC'd in Cub foods in madison quite a bit...never have seen a sign nor been asked to leave...( i see its on your list)
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Wisconsin stores that infringe upon our rights
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Perhaps they took it down, no idea. I updated the list.
roberthaackdiamonds
Regular Member
Robert Haack Diamonds responds to Channel 6 News story
Hi,
I am thankful for one of your members alerting me to this thread. I feel like a politician. The interview lasted for about 7 minutes and the news clips what they want to air.
This is what I explained. I am for the concealed weapons, as a bad guy will do what he wants, and in the other 48 states that have the law, didn't turn out to be the wild west. I do have a concern with guns that are left in cars, example, my wife is a gun carrier, and if she has to run into a store, she puts her gun in the trunk (she is security). What happens if the gun gets stolen? My brother helps train some people in the Navy Seals (they are snipers) how to handle close range shooting (like what if you had to run, then shoot, how will your aim be affected,etc.) Yes, my brother and I shoot quite a few different guns.
Anyway, I did say that I will not allow concealed weapons in my jewelry store. Here is why. What if I did allow guns. You, as a good citizen, is shopping my store, and you see a theft go down. Our store does have a procedure of what to do, depending on the circumstances. But, now what if the good citizen takes out their gun, and causes the situation to escalate? What if there is an injury caused with that altercation? Who is responsible? What if that whole situation could have been avoided if the good citizen did not have the gun? This is a situation I do not want to be in, nor do I want that good citizen to get injured / injure someone else, and have to deal with the court system. We all know the courts could side with the bad guy, even if it is self defense.
I hope this explains my store's position.
Bret
Hi,
I am thankful for one of your members alerting me to this thread. I feel like a politician. The interview lasted for about 7 minutes and the news clips what they want to air.
This is what I explained. I am for the concealed weapons, as a bad guy will do what he wants, and in the other 48 states that have the law, didn't turn out to be the wild west. I do have a concern with guns that are left in cars, example, my wife is a gun carrier, and if she has to run into a store, she puts her gun in the trunk (she is security). What happens if the gun gets stolen? My brother helps train some people in the Navy Seals (they are snipers) how to handle close range shooting (like what if you had to run, then shoot, how will your aim be affected,etc.) Yes, my brother and I shoot quite a few different guns.
Anyway, I did say that I will not allow concealed weapons in my jewelry store. Here is why. What if I did allow guns. You, as a good citizen, is shopping my store, and you see a theft go down. Our store does have a procedure of what to do, depending on the circumstances. But, now what if the good citizen takes out their gun, and causes the situation to escalate? What if there is an injury caused with that altercation? Who is responsible? What if that whole situation could have been avoided if the good citizen did not have the gun? This is a situation I do not want to be in, nor do I want that good citizen to get injured / injure someone else, and have to deal with the court system. We all know the courts could side with the bad guy, even if it is self defense.
I hope this explains my store's position.
Bret
paul@paul-fisher.com
Regular Member
Bret,
The new law states that if you do not post 'no guns', you are immune. The implication is that if you do post it, the immunity is not granted.
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/related/enrolled/sb93.pdf
Page 13 175.60(21)(b) and (c):
I understand and respect your private property rights, however, I would not feel safe being disarmed shopping at your store.
Bret,
We do respect your decision to not allow law abiding citizens to carry in your store and Paul has already posted the law regarding what happens in the event a robbery happens. As for those who choose to carry, there were two gentlemen open carrying and eating at a pancake restaurant in Kennessaw, GA. Some criminals were going to rob that place. Before they robbed it, one of them went in to scope the place out. He saw these two gentleman carrying and decided to get out of there and wait in the alley with his friends until they left. A waitress saw them sitting back there and thought it odd, so she called police. When they arrived on scene, they arrested all of them in the car.
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-atlanta/open-carry-deters-armed-robbery-kennesaw
This is just one instance where this has happened. I've read of another time where two gentlemen on this forum were in their bank. While one was doing his transactions at with the teller, the teller all of a sudden got really scared. When he asked her what was wrong, she said a guy just walked in with a gun in his hand and then immediately exited because he saw the two gentlemen carrying.
We do not care if you want to restrict the law abiding in your stores, but remember, we also will choose to do business with you are not. There are several jewelry stores in Milwaukee we can do business with and we'd happily do it with anyone who chooses to respect our rights.
I am many who are afraid that you saying this publicly, you will be robbed several times by criminals. We ask you please reconsider your decision.
TFred
Regular Member
"What-ifs" are a dime a dozen. For any scenario you can come up with that paints a law abiding gun carrier in a bad light, real-life history can document multiple cases in which they save the day.
What if your robber gets angry because you don't have "enough" cash or merchandise on hand to satisfy their criminal rage? What if they start summarily executing your customers and employees? What if one of your murder victim's surviving relatives can prove to a civil jury that your policy was responsible for them leaving their firearm in the car, and that was the sole reason that they were unable to defend themselves? See Luby's massacre, and specifically Suzanna Hupp.
Why would you want to place your very life in the hands of a violent criminal, and trust his benevolence to allow you to survive? What possible argument could you make that would convince anyone that this is the best way to survive? An armed robber has already made the decision to violently break laws, why would they suddenly turn kind and decide your survival is in their best interest?
Don't you think it is remarkably telling that we can provide you with example after example of real life horrific crimes that actually happened where legal firearms were excluded, but all you can do is guess "what-if" might happen if firearms are allowed?
Can you find even one documented case where a law-abiding citizen with a firearm escalated a robbery into a worse case than it already was?
TFred
rcawdor57
Campaign Veteran
If I Read It Correctly, Immunity Is Only For "Concealed" Carry, Not Open Carry....
Paul, can you read through it as I did and make sure I am correct. I read it several times and it seems to only cover CONCEALED carry for immunity. That sorta sucks!
Snip: "(b) A person that does not prohibit an individual from
carrying a concealed weapon on property that the person
owns or occupies is immune from any liability arising
from its decision.
(c) An employer that does not prohibit one or more
employees from carrying a concealed weapon under sub.
(15m) is immune from any liability arising from its decision."
Paul, can you read through it as I did and make sure I am correct. I read it several times and it seems to only cover CONCEALED carry for immunity. That sorta sucks!
Snip: "(b) A person that does not prohibit an individual from
carrying a concealed weapon on property that the person
owns or occupies is immune from any liability arising
from its decision.
(c) An employer that does not prohibit one or more
employees from carrying a concealed weapon under sub.
(15m) is immune from any liability arising from its decision."
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MKEgal
Regular Member
Yeah... those of us who have been wrongfully arrested for carrying, then artfully interviewed (as you were), know all about that tactic.roberthaackdiamonds said:
:banghead: Examples of problems, please, not hypotheticals.
There's already a law that covers injuring (or killing) someone else in self-defense.
We will soon have an even better law, more citizen-protective.
You have provided us with information we need to make an informed decision about where to shop, and criminals with information about where it's safe to "work".
I will honor legal signs not to carry. If you don't want my business, there are plenty of places that do! I carry 24/7 and have for years in 38 states and soon to be 39.
I know that the safest place for my Kimber is on my person, not locked in my car or truck. I put my firearm on each morning and it stays on until night.
I know that the safest place for my Kimber is on my person, not locked in my car or truck. I put my firearm on each morning and it stays on until night.
roberthaackdiamonds
Regular Member
Hi,
I understand both sides, my wife is a gun carrier, and is a business owner. She does not know who is coming in our store, if they are capable of handling a firearm in a very stressful situation. My wife has been in those situations, she has been fired at, it is not easy keeping your wits about you. Your adrenaline kicks in, and you might miss your target, and you might hit an innocent by standard.
What would happen if you come into the store, and a situation arises, and your gun is taken away from you, and used against you?
I respect the right to bear arms, as we do. I just don't want a situation to arise in my store, that could have been avoided if guns were not brought in. If a bad guy comes in with a gun, we do have procedures in place. We also have an armed guard in our store. Citizens just don't know what their response is going to be once you are put in a bad position, fight or flight? Many can say they will fight, but you never will know until you are in that position.
Please come to our facebook page, so more people can discuss this. It is under Robert Haack Diamonds. Keep in mind that my decision is never final. I wont delete any messages as long as the language is nice and civil.
No hatred messages, we understand there is frustration, but please out of respect for everyone, please keep it as civil as possible. Thank you.
Bret
I understand both sides, my wife is a gun carrier, and is a business owner. She does not know who is coming in our store, if they are capable of handling a firearm in a very stressful situation. My wife has been in those situations, she has been fired at, it is not easy keeping your wits about you. Your adrenaline kicks in, and you might miss your target, and you might hit an innocent by standard.
What would happen if you come into the store, and a situation arises, and your gun is taken away from you, and used against you?
I respect the right to bear arms, as we do. I just don't want a situation to arise in my store, that could have been avoided if guns were not brought in. If a bad guy comes in with a gun, we do have procedures in place. We also have an armed guard in our store. Citizens just don't know what their response is going to be once you are put in a bad position, fight or flight? Many can say they will fight, but you never will know until you are in that position.
Please come to our facebook page, so more people can discuss this. It is under Robert Haack Diamonds. Keep in mind that my decision is never final. I wont delete any messages as long as the language is nice and civil.
No hatred messages, we understand there is frustration, but please out of respect for everyone, please keep it as civil as possible. Thank you.Bret
Please use this thread instead of this one. If you do decide to allow law abiding citizens in your stores again, I'll gladly take you off the list.
TFred
Regular Member
Dude, you're still chasing ghosts. Not very good at math? Columbine, Virginia Tech, Ft. Hood, countless Post Office shootings, school shootings, mall shootings... find one documented case of a gun being taken away from a law abiding citizen and used against them during a robbery that was already under way.Hi,
I understand both sides, my wife is a gun carrier, and is a business owner. She does not know who is coming in our store, if they are capable of handling a firearm in a very stressful situation. My wife has been in those situations, she has been fired at, it is not easy keeping your wits about you. Your adrenaline kicks in, and you might miss your target, and you might hit an innocent by standard.
What would happen if you come into the store, and a situation arises, and your gun is taken away from you, and used against you?
I respect the right to bear arms, as we do. I just don't want a situation to arise in my store, that could have been avoided if guns were not brought in. If a bad guy comes in with a gun, we do have procedures in place. We also have an armed guard in our store. Citizens just don't know what their response is going to be once you are put in a bad position, fight or flight? Many can say they will fight, but you never will know until you are in that position.
Please come to our facebook page, so more people can discuss this. It is under Robert Haack Diamonds. Keep in mind that my decision is never final. I wont delete any messages as long as the language is nice and civil.
Bret
There are hundreds of cases where mythical "gun free zones" resulted in merciless murder, and almost zero actual cases of what you claim to be afraid of.
Do the research. Do the math. Why don't you value the lives of your customers? Are they only good for their money, but not worthy of defending their own lives?
Harsh language, yes... reality is harsh sometimes.
ETA: And besides... if you change your "no guns" policy to a policy and signs that say "Law-abiding citizens welcome to carry here", what criminal in their right mind will ever try to rob your store?
TFred
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Canard
Regular Member
Jake's Deli on north ave. They were on tmj4 last night saying "they want a safe environment for our customers". I guess they just don't get it. Even my wife, who is not a big fan of guns turned to me an said "Are they stupid? Now the bad guys will know it's safe to rob them"
hardballer
Regular Member
Alma Wisconsin. Rabidly anti carry
Kate & Gracie's, owned by a couple of gentlemen from the Twin Cities, was outraged and emphatic in not allowing carry of any kind. The owner I spoke to was very angry and when I told him we would shop elsewhere, he replied, "GOOD!!!" So I would say that he is adamant in regards to NO OPEN OR CC CARRY.
The Finn and Feathers Pizza Inn (really, just a bar with a little pizza oven) owner was more befuddled than anything and couldn't quite comprehend the need for carrying a gun. She said No...
The owner of the Alma Hotel would not see me. Period. The owner was there but she was "BUSY".
The rest of the places were bars only so I did not bother to ask. (I was asking for the June 25th get together.)
Kate & Gracie's, owned by a couple of gentlemen from the Twin Cities, was outraged and emphatic in not allowing carry of any kind. The owner I spoke to was very angry and when I told him we would shop elsewhere, he replied, "GOOD!!!" So I would say that he is adamant in regards to NO OPEN OR CC CARRY.
The Finn and Feathers Pizza Inn (really, just a bar with a little pizza oven) owner was more befuddled than anything and couldn't quite comprehend the need for carrying a gun. She said No...
The owner of the Alma Hotel would not see me. Period. The owner was there but she was "BUSY".
The rest of the places were bars only so I did not bother to ask. (I was asking for the June 25th get together.)
Brothers Bar and Grill
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150293496386675&set=o.340160200214&type=1&ref=nf
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150293496386675&set=o.340160200214&type=1&ref=nf
MKEgal
Regular Member
www.friendorfoe.us
Everyone should be posting these on that website, esp. as the new cc law goes into effect.
www.friendorfoe.us
Today I added Robert Haack Diamonds, Farm & Fleet, & Fleet Farm.
Everyone should be posting these on that website, esp. as the new cc law goes into effect.
www.friendorfoe.us
Today I added Robert Haack Diamonds, Farm & Fleet, & Fleet Farm.
Fleet Farm? I thought they followed state law?
MKEgal
Regular Member
Friend or Foe allows posting of both carry-friendly & anti-rights stores.
Toward the upper right of the page, there's an "add business" link.
The next page, search for the company, & if their marker balloon shows up, click on it, then the "rate this company" link in the info box that shows up.
Negative encounters earn -3 points, neutral is +1, positive is +2.
Toward the upper right of the page, there's an "add business" link.
The next page, search for the company, & if their marker balloon shows up, click on it, then the "rate this company" link in the info box that shows up.
Negative encounters earn -3 points, neutral is +1, positive is +2.
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