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Thread: Pro-Gun VA Democrats Win Endorsement from the NRA

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    Pro-Gun VA Democrats Win Endorsement from the NRA

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...100606329.html


    <SNIP>

    "At a gathering of volunteers for Robert Hurt's (R) campaign in Charlottesville last week, a concerned supporter asked the candidate why the NRA nod went to his opponent, freshman Rep. Tom Perriello (D-Va.).

    Hurt said he was unhappy with the group's decision and attempted to explain the NRA policy, before also trying to link his opponent to Pelosi. "There is no more anti-Second Amendment vote than a vote for Nancy Pelosi for speaker," Hurt said.

    . . .

    The NRA has endorsed three of the four potentially vulnerable Democrats in Virginia, backing Reps. Rick Boucher and Glenn Nye as well as Perriello. "

  2. #2
    Regular Member DontTreadOnMeVa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Donkey View Post
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...100606329.html

    "There is no more anti-Second Amendment vote than a vote for Nancy Pelosi for speaker," Hurt said.

    "
    Dont care who the NRA endorses. P*** on them alll...

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontTreadOnMeVa View Post
    Dont care who the NRA endorses. P*** on them alll...
    That pretty much sums up my feelings.
    I talked to Hurts Campaign last weekend.
    The NRA is taking a "If it ain't broke" position.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    As I posted here earlier today, not only is this not really a big deal, it's actually quite a good thing, as it indicates the pro-gun agenda is expanding across other value bases... It's good as long as everyone realizes that an NRA endorsement does not mean what it once meant, and that all candidates must be evaluated on more than just one issue.

    The point I made in that post is reinforced yet again, the Democrats (our favorite Mr. Donkey included) are loudly proclaiming these endorsements, because they are trying as hard as they can to fool the voters into thinking that their candidates are now moderate or even ::gasp:: conservative!

    It won't work, voters are smarter than that this time around.

    TFred

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    As I posted here earlier today, not only is this not really a big deal, it's actually quite a good thing, as it indicates the pro-gun agenda is expanding across other value bases... It's good as long as everyone realizes that an NRA endorsement does not mean what it once meant, and that all candidates must be evaluated on more than just one issue.

    The point I made in that post is reinforced yet again, the Democrats (our favorite Mr. Donkey included) are loudly proclaiming these endorsements, because they are trying as hard as they can to fool the voters into thinking that their candidates are now moderate or even ::gasp:: conservative!

    It won't work, voters are smarter than that this time around.

    TFred
    If it was only that simple Tfred.

    That District is rural, really hard hit by the economy, has a fairly large Black Population who are going to vote Democrat no matter who is running, a large white population who are not going to vote at all and local elections that have all of them fed up.

    VCDL is NOT BIG there. There are members... I only know a handful and half of them are memberships that I used to pay for but stopped last year. The NRA does make a difference among the voting population.

    You have to give the Devil his due. Perriello beat Goode who had been a Representative of one sort or the other in the area, since he was 24 years old and he did it by registering people who didn't normally vote in the area...Like College kids.

    Christian Rickers, a former Kaine Administration employee is running for Treasurer in Lunenburg and pushing the Perilliello platform. That may get even more of the undecided locals.

    I wouldn't want to put any money on that race yet and yeah, the NRA is making it worse.
    Last edited by peter nap; 10-08-2010 at 05:13 AM.

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    As one of Perriello's constituents I have only been disappointed that he has cast the votes that he seemed to indicate he would cast as a candidate (from my recollection). I did not vote for Perriello and don't plan to this go round, but seeing how Mr. Perriello has stuck to the things he said he'd vote for I believe that he will remain a supporter of the 2A when given the opportunity even as he has one other issues. Like TFred suggests, I think it is a good thing that even some members of Congress who might otherwise vote the government expanding line of thinking, understand that the 2A and what it entails needs to be protected.
    Last edited by jmelvin; 10-08-2010 at 09:31 AM.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    As one of Perriello's constituents I have only been disappointed that he has cast the votes that he seemed to indicate he would cast as a candidate (from my recollection). I did not vote for Perriello and don't plan to this go round, but seeing how Mr. Perriello has stuck to the things he said he'd vote for I believe that he will remain a supporter of the 2A when given the opportunity even as he has one other issues. Like TFred suggests, I think it is a good thing that even some members of Congress who might otherwise vote the government expanding line of thinking, understand that the 2A and what it entails needs to be protected.
    And, as TFred said in #4, all candidates must be evaluated on more than just one issue. We tend to get into trouble, politically, when we dismiss an otherwise reasonable candidate on the basis of their disagreement on one issue out of many other issues on which we may agree.

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    Regular Member kennys's Avatar
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    Just my .02

    Sorry think I went against the rules of posting so I voluntarily removed.
    Last edited by kennys; 10-08-2010 at 11:04 AM.

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    As I posted here earlier today, not only is this not really a big deal, it's actually quite a good thing, ...

    TFred
    It concerns me that all of you seems to be missing the central problem. As WaPo says:
    The powerful group adheres to what it calls "an incumbent-friendly" policy, which holds that if two candidates are equally supportive of gun rights, the incumbent gets the nod.
    That would apply to RINOs like Cantor as well. The NRA chooses the power of incumbency over principle. That's ultimately destructive, but try convincing Cox or Arulanandam of that.

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    That pretty much sums up my feelings.
    I talked to Hurts Campaign last weekend.
    The NRA is taking a "If it ain't broke" position.
    Well the NRA is broke. Some others have commented:

    Incumbent Friendly Policy

    A lot of folks have questioned why NRA has a policy that’s incumbent friendly.
    This article provides some insight:

    The lesson is clear - a constitutional Republic needs constant turnover in its leadership, regular infusions of new blood, fresh sets of eyes, in order to retain its founding principles. Otherwise, entrenched politicians will come to view their offices as theirs by right and will do whatever they can to protect their power and perks.
    NRA Incumbent Policy: Is The NRA Blind or What?

    The NRA policy is that if two candidates are equally supportive of gun rights, the incumbent gets their support.

    No other issues are considered, including the integrity and honesty of the candidates. It’s just a matter of who’s been in office longer.

    The NRA’s incumbent-friendly policy is typical of the insanity that pervades our political climate today.

    Members of the NRA need to stop blindly following the pied piper.

    The NRA is in position to determine the outcome of the elections.

    I wouldn’t have a problem with that except that they aren’t thinking, they are blindly endorsing candidates, and then they are telling their members to do the same.
    Well. I am not blind. I consult GOA. See their ratings for Virginia.

  11. #11
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    The NRA is what it is: a one-issue organization.

    What it comes down to is that pro-gun points-of-view are starting to spread to politicians who hold other positions that the more traditional pro-gun people may not support.

    More people, who are more politically diverse, are supporting more gun rights. Tell me again how that can be bad.

    TFred

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    Well. I am not blind. I consult GOA. See their ratings for Virginia.
    You mean, like the "A" for Cantor? What am I missing here?

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tess View Post
    You mean, like the "A" for Cantor? What am I missing here?
    I saw that. That's hilarious. What is GOA missing here? Perhaps Pratt and Velleco should explain.

    Anyone here think Cantor deserves an 'A' or even a 'Z' -- I wonder Aaron Zelman thinks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    As I posted here earlier today, not only is this not really a big deal, it's actually quite a good thing, as it indicates the pro-gun agenda is expanding across other value bases... It's good as long as everyone realizes that an NRA endorsement does not mean what it once meant, and that all candidates must be evaluated on more than just one issue.
    I agree, they endorse on a sole issue and this endorsement is a great thing in my opinion. It shows the NRA is actually being unbiased in it's endorsements.

    And yes, candidates must be evaluated on more than one issue. Given Hurt's stance on some issues, this endorsement is just icing on the cake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    ...
    You have to give the Devil his due. Perriello beat Goode who had been a Representative of one sort or the other in the area, since he was 24 years old and he did it by registering people who didn't normally vote in the area...Like College kids...
    About 700 votes separated the candidates. The dems have a funny way of coming up with the votes they need.

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    The NRA is stupid. Okay....so they are supposedly "pro gun". They are also going to be voting for anti-gun Supreme Court Justices and bills that have anti-gun legislation hidden deep within.

    I think the time has passed when gun rights are compromised by legislation directly addressing guns. They will now be targeted inside of bills without our knowledge, through attacks on ammunition supply and ammo taxation (guns are no good without ammo) which will incrementally "ban" ammo/guns by slowly pricing ammo out of the reach of more and more average Americans, and via proxies of unelectable such as the EPA.

    If you endorse a Harry Reid or a Periello then you are endorsing someone who WILL pass VERY large bills that WILL have anti-gun components. Much like how the National Park carry law was changed when it was hidden inside of the Credit Card bill.

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    All three of the NRA endorsed pro-gun Virginia democratic incumbants -- Nye, Perriello, and Boucher -- went down in yesterday's election, thanks I am sure, in no small part, to "pro-gun" Virginia voters.

    The Virginia congressional delegation has not gained one pro-gun vote.

    The losses of Rick Boucher and Tom Periello are particular blows to gun rights. The democratic "take-away" from these losses is that democrats have little to gain by being pro-2A.

    This morning, the Virginia democratic party is far more "anti-gun" than it was yesterday, as is the the national democratic party.

    On the other hand, the Republicans have this morning reached their "high water mark" both in Virginia and nationally. They are unlikely to do this well again for a very long time

    Sooner or later (and I think sooner) new democrats will recapture these lost seats.

    I wonder how pro-gun these new democrats will be.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Donkey has been hitting the sauce

    Donkey,

    Do you use a "Crystal Ball" or a crack pipe to make your predictions?

    Personally, I hope future Democrat and Republican losses are replaced with Libertarian victories.

    Live Free or Die,
    Thundar
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Donkey View Post
    All three of the NRA endorsed pro-gun Virginia democratic incumbants -- Nye, Perriello, and Boucher -- went down in yesterday's election, thanks I am sure, in no small part, to "pro-gun" Virginia voters.

    The Virginia congressional delegation has not gained one pro-gun vote.

    The losses of Rick Boucher and Tom Periello are particular blows to gun rights. The democratic "take-away" from these losses is that democrats have little to gain by being pro-2A.

    This morning, the Virginia democratic party is far more "anti-gun" than it was yesterday, as is the the national democratic party.

    .
    The real important part of this is that the three republicans will help make sure the next speaker of the house will be pro 2A!
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Donkey View Post
    All three of the NRA endorsed pro-gun Virginia democratic incumbants -- Nye, Perriello, and Boucher -- went down in yesterday's election, thanks I am sure, in no small part, to "pro-gun" Virginia voters.

    The Virginia congressional delegation has not gained one pro-gun vote.

    The losses of Rick Boucher and Tom Periello are particular blows to gun rights. The democratic "take-away" from these losses is that democrats have little to gain by being pro-2A.

    This morning, the Virginia democratic party is far more "anti-gun" than it was yesterday, as is the the national democratic party.

    On the other hand, the Republicans have this morning reached their "high water mark" both in Virginia and nationally. They are unlikely to do this well again for a very long time

    Sooner or later (and I think sooner) new democrats will recapture these lost seats.

    I wonder how pro-gun these new democrats will be.
    And of course back here on terra firma...

    Just as you cannot select a candidate based solely on an NRA endorsement, a losing candidate cannot evaluate their loss based solely on the fact that the NRA endorsement didn't win them the election.

    The notion that Griffith and Hurt will be detrimental to "gun rights" compared to Boucher and Periello is laughable at best, and a typical indication of the fantasy land world that most Democrats seem to live in these days.

    The Virginia Democratic party is no more or less anti-gun as a result of this election. Boucher and Periello are still Democrats, and if they are men of even the most limited integrity, their "gun views" will stay the same even though they lost. If they change, that would be clear evidence that they held these views in an effort to deceive the voters.

    The Virginia congressional delegation is at least as pro-gun, if not clearly more so than before.

    If the Democrats have an ounce of brain matter among them, their "take-away" should be that the regular folks are done with the Obama train wreck, and they are finally able to see that where Democrats are concerned, all politics bow to the national agenda. Unfortunately, for the nation as well as for the remaining Democrats, all indications from Obama are that he still just doesn't get it, and will endeavor to shove his agenda down our throats with as much furor as ever.

    TFred

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    "Shove down our throats," eh?

    Fred, you have been drinking too much of the Frank Luntz/Word Doctors tea again.

    Guess what? I don't need a "Krystal Ball" for my next prediction:

    Obama and the democrats are gonna wipe the floor with many of these new guys in 2012, and the Republican victory in the House helped that along considerably.

    Don't know whether it will be Periello and Boucher next time though. Certainly won't be Nye.

    Now all we democrats have to do is watch em dance.

    But we are going to do considerably more than that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Donkey View Post
    ...Obama and the democrats are gonna wipe the floor with many of these new guys in 2012, and the Republican victory in the House helped that along considerably...
    I'm not certain that I entirely agree. Yes, voter turnout will likely be greater. The economy may even be better by then. However, the results of last Tuesday reduced Virginia Democrats’ strength in the redistricting process in 2011 and will likely set up a battle between: a) the Republican House of Delegates (59-39-2) with the Republican Governor; and b) the Democratic state Senate (22-18). The GOP House and Gov. will try to shore up swing districts by making them a bit more conservative. If they are sucessful, this will make it more difficult for the Dems to recapture those seats. While the Democratic state Senate will have other designs, the Governor can use his veto power. Other states where the GOP did well in state legislatures should witness the same effect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forty-five View Post
    I'm not certain that I entirely agree. Yes, voter turnout will likely be greater. The economy may even be better by then. However, the results of last Tuesday reduced Virginia Democrats’ strength in the redistricting process in 2011 and will likely set up a battle between: a) the Republican House of Delegates (59-39-2) with the Republican Governor; and b) the Democratic state Senate (22-18). The GOP House and Gov. will try to shore up swing districts by making them a bit more conservative. If they are sucessful, this will make it more difficult for the Dems to recapture those seats. While the Democratic state Senate will have other designs, the Governor can use his veto power. Other states where the GOP did well in state legislatures should witness the same effect.
    It will be interesting to see how well republicans protect their party in redistricting, or whether the main "party" protected in redistricting is the "Incumbant Party."

    Whatever else you might say about him, Virginia Democratic Senate Majority Leader Dick Saslaw is also a pretty wiley guy. Virginia Republicans go into redistricting well-matched.

    You forgot the other great republican advantage: the ability to mobilize great amounts of corporate $ without a return address as a result of the "Citizens United" decision.

    In spite of all that, I think that Virginia democrats will do very well in 2011 and 2012. I am hoping that pro-gun democrats are a good part of the mix.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Donkey View Post
    You forgot the other great republican advantage: the ability to mobilize great amounts of corporate $ without a return address as a result of the "Citizens United" decision.
    It's pretty hard to keep up with the similarly unregulated Union dollars... It's almost amusing how unregulated money from one side is standard operating procedure, but from the other it's the end of Democracy as we know it...

    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    It's pretty hard to keep up with the similarly unregulated Union dollars... It's almost amusing how unregulated money from one side is standard operating procedure, but from the other it's the end of Democracy as we know it...

    TFred
    Not hard at all.

    http://www.opensecrets.org/overview/527cmtes.php

    Important to remember that the link above lists 527s only, not 501(c)4s or 501(c)6s: nobody but them and their donors know where their money comes from, or where it goes.

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