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Thread: OT Kind of: Owning Guns and Association to oathkeepers gets newborn baby taken away

  1. #1
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    OT Kind of: Owning Guns and Association to oathkeepers gets newborn baby taken away

    At first read I am shocked, I mean utterly shocked, because of his association to the "Oath Keepers" and buying guns the state of New Hampshire steals his newborn baby.

    Statement by Jonathon Irish

    My name is Johnathon Irish and my fiance’s name is Stephanie Taylor, she uses my grandfathers last name Janvrin on the internet. Our daughter Cheyenne was born at 11:37 on 6 October. She wasn’t even 16 hours old when they came in and stole her from us, the head of security had come in a nurse while Cheyenne was sleeping lied to us telling us that they just wanted to take her to the nursery to see the doctor to be discharged. Even though I said NO to have the doctor come in the room they took her anyway, I followed then out to the nursery because I didn’t want my daughter out of my sight, as we were walking out I saw several gentlemen wearing suits with detective badges and my gut just started wrenching.

    They rushed her into the nursery and locked her in, while I was talking to one of the other nurses the head of security comes up behind me, grabs my arm and starts walking me down the hall saying “you need to keep an open mind, you need to just hear them out” and he just kept repeating himself ignoring my questions as to who “they” were. When he got me in Stephanie’s hospital room and sat me down on the couch the police department and DCYF workers showed up. 3 uniformed patrol officers and 3-4 detectives with 2 DCYF social workers walked in the room, one of the patrol man asked if he could pat me down, I said NO not giving consent that I just want to know why the hell everyone is there.

    The officer grabbed my wrist, bent it behind my back and stood me up and proceeded to pat me down anyway. They took my pocket knife and BIC lighter, they then asked me if I had any other weapons on me which I told them no. They then gave us a fabricated affidavit with no facts in it what so ever telling us that they were taking custody of our newborn daughter. If anyone has any other questions I am willing to answer any and all questions and clarify anything that someone may not understand. To be honest, I don’t even understand this myself.

    (Statment by oathkeepers)

    http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2010/10/...from-hospital/

    This is pretty scary, i wonder if they are following all of us in some data base as well.

    Stealing their newborn!!! For their beliefs? I believe there are other allegations not shown but until your proven guilty
    they should have no tight to take some kid.
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    Last edited by ChuckUFarley; 10-08-2010 at 01:36 PM.

  2. #2
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    It seems from reading the affidavit that the Oath Keepers was but one of MANY asserted allegations directed at the parent's inability to raise children. Not knowing the other charges we can't fully decide if those are violence related or if they are more Oath Keepers association rhetoric just veiled a little better.

    I can say this though. It would APPEAR to me, IANAL, that the authorities "had justification" (heavy quotation marks on that part btw) to take the child merely based on the assumptions listed. For example: Family court case pending regarding Revocation of Parental Rights, Failure to attend court mandated violence management classes, numerous "reports" of domestic violence. Not to mention the fact that, at least in this state, he would be classified as a violent felon for the concealed weapon without a permit charge if convicted.

    That however does not mean that I support this decision, nor the wording of the affidavit. I am merely pointing out that the other allegations seem to warrant at least a preliminary removal of the child (according to status quo/law) as far as I see it. Does not mean it is right though.....
    Last edited by devildoc5; 10-08-2010 at 01:57 PM.
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    Regular Member skiingislife725's Avatar
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    Looks like there is likely more to this story...especially the part about the prior custody trial for two other kids. Will have to see how this plays out and if the other allegations are true or not.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Yeah you were right, it is off topic and has nothing to do with law abiding citizens.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  5. #5
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    In reading the "Motion" I saw the mention of "Oath Keepers" and recent purchase of firearms as merely notice to anyone coming in contact with this individual that he might be armed and offer resistance.

    The rest of the case most likely hinges on facts not known or presented here.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by devildoc5 View Post
    It seems from reading the affidavit that the Oath Keepers was but one of MANY asserted allegations directed at the parent's inability to raise children. Not knowing the other charges we can't fully decide if those are violence related or if they are more Oath Keepers association rhetoric just veiled a little better.

    I can say this though. It would APPEAR to me, IANAL, that the authorities "had justification" (heavy quotation marks on that part btw) to take the child merely based on the assumptions listed. For example: Family court case pending regarding Revocation of Parental Rights, Failure to attend court mandated violence management classes, numerous "reports" of domestic violence. Not to mention the fact that, at least in this state, he would be classified as a violent felon for the concealed weapon without a permit charge if convicted.

    That however does not mean that I support this decision, nor the wording of the affidavit. I am merely pointing out that the other allegations seem to warrant at least a preliminary removal of the child (according to status quo/law) as far as I see it. Does not mean it is right though.....
    I see your point, but what intrests me is they didnt arrest him, if he had failed to do a court order wouldnt they have grounds to arrest him? it seems a little premature to just take a child.

    I do think there are some whackos out there that really hurt children and should have the kids taken for their safety, however i believe there must be irrifutible proof and agree it shouldnt be liked to purchasing of weapons or being apart of a group or orginization.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    In reading the "Motion" I saw the mention of "Oath Keepers" and recent purchase of firearms as merely notice to anyone coming in contact with this individual that he might be armed and offer resistance.

    The rest of the case most likely hinges on facts not known or presented here.
    I am sure you are correct, but what concerns me with this story is, how did they know he was blogging on oathkeepers, and why would they site that as well as the facts that he purchased guns as one of the reasons for child confiscation. I am not defending this couple for all i know they are whacked out crazy people, but to site a membership to an orginization and the purchases of firearms a reason seems improper if not illegal to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Yeah you were right, it is off topic and has nothing to do with law abiding citizens.
    Thats why there is an OT in the begining, i am glad you are paying attention.

  9. #9
    Regular Member ainie's Avatar
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    If you look at the rest of the reasons, they had other children taken away. And by the way it was worded it appears that there was a previous issue with him and guns including concealing without a permit. That seems to be why they were concerned with his recent purchases of guns.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckUFarley View Post
    I see your point, but what intrests me is they didnt arrest him, if he had failed to do a court order wouldnt they have grounds to arrest him? it seems a little premature to just take a child.

    I do think there are some whackos out there that really hurt children and should have the kids taken for their safety, however i believe there must be irrifutible proof and agree it shouldnt be liked to purchasing of weapons or being apart of a group or orginization.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ainie View Post
    If you look at the rest of the reasons, they had other children taken away. And by the way it was worded it appears that there was a previous issue with him and guns including concealing without a permit. That seems to be why they were concerned with his recent purchases of guns.
    But being concerned doesn’t give the Government the right to trample on the rights of its citizens, isn’t that what we tout on this forum? Because someone is concerned about OC doesn’t mean it is causing alarm. In the same fashion, his previous issue of carrying concealed without a license, although it doesn’t give more detail, has no bearing on purchasing new firearms until he becomes guilty of breaking the law. Even then that has no bearing of purchasing firearms. I am sure there are individuals who cannot carry concealed for whatever reason but can still buy and own firearms.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Yeah you were right, it is off topic and has nothing to do with law abiding citizens.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckUFarley View Post
    Thats why there is an OT in the begining, i am glad you are paying attention.
    To bad you were not paying attention when you posted this stupid thread.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  12. #12
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckUFarley View Post
    But being concerned doesn’t give the Government the right to trample on the rights of its citizens, isn’t that what we tout on this forum? Because someone is concerned about OC doesn’t mean it is causing alarm. In the same fashion, his previous issue of carrying concealed without a license, although it doesn’t give more detail, has no bearing on purchasing new firearms until he becomes guilty of breaking the law. Even then that has no bearing of purchasing firearms. I am sure there are individuals who cannot carry concealed for whatever reason but can still buy and own firearms.
    Are we SURE his rights are being trampled. Without what Paul Harvey always refers to as "The Rest of the Story" how can we be sure they are, or even for that matter, aren't. Without all the facts we are no better off than the blind man trying to describe an elephant by only feeling his tail.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  13. #13
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    I see nothing to implicate the father, nor to take him from his child except a meaningless complaint that the father is an oath keeper and he has bought firearms. The document, however does not appear to be complete at the bottom of this page. Is there another page to this document?

    The police officer's agression, grabbing the father, conducting a non-consensual search, and seizing his property appears to be a clear case of battery, and maybe more.

    This could get interesting.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    I see nothing to implicate the father, nor to take him from his child except a meaningless complaint that the father is an oath keeper and he has bought firearms. The document, however does not appear to be complete at the bottom of this page. Is there another page to this document?

    The police officer's agression, grabbing the father, conducting a non-consensual search, and seizing his property appears to be a clear case of battery, and maybe more.

    This could get interesting.
    Unfortunatly that is all i have, i wish i had the whole thing.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Freedom of Information Act time

    1) How did the division determine that he is an oathkeeper

    2) How did the division determine that oathkeepers is a militia

    3)
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    To bad you were not paying attention when you posted this stupid thread.
    Then dont come here.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Freedom of Information Act time

    1) How did the division determine that he is an oathkeeper.

    2) How did the division determine that oathkeepers is a militia.

    3) How did the division find out that he had purchased firearms?

    Taking a daughter from her father based upon what?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Freedom of Information Act time

    1) How did the division determine that he is an oathkeeper.

    2) How did the division determine that oathkeepers is a militia.

    3) How did the division find out that he had purchased firearms?

    Taking a daughter from her father based upon what?
    My biggest concern in all this is the tracking of those who blog on Oath keepers, this isn’t like a radical group that has attacked or target anyone in the past, it is actually allot of law enforcement and military people and others. If they are monitoring and tracking this site, and calling them "a militia movement", what about this or any other site.
    Can the fact that we post on OCDO be used in an affidavit to take our children away, or perhaps be used to say we are mentally instable and need to be hospitalized? That’s the scary thing to me about this story.

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    Regular Member mparramore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckUFarley View Post
    Thats why there is an OT in the begining, i am glad you are paying attention.
    Big Dave is Now Goodeye BigDave!
    This is my safety

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckUFarley View Post
    Then dont come here.
    Like that is going to happen
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  21. #21
    Regular Member mparramore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Yeah you were right, it is off topic and has nothing to do with law abiding citizens.
    Good eye mate!
    This is my safety

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    Regular Member mparramore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckUFarley View Post
    My biggest concern in all this is the tracking of those who blog on Oath keepers, this isn’t like a radical group that has attacked or target anyone in the past, it is actually allot of law enforcement and military people and others. If they are monitoring and tracking this site, and calling them "a militia movement", what about this or any other site.
    Can the fact that we post on OCDO be used in an affidavit to take our children away, or perhaps be used to say we are mentally instable and need to be hospitalized? That’s the scary thing to me about this story.
    +1 You know the Government is screening this.
    This is my safety

  23. #23
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    I see nothing to implicate the father, nor to take him from his child except a meaningless complaint that the father is an oath keeper and he has bought firearms. The document, however does not appear to be complete at the bottom of this page. Is there another page to this document?

    The police officer's agression, grabbing the father, conducting a non-consensual search, and seizing his property appears to be a clear case of battery, and maybe more.

    This could get interesting.
    How about what was written in the motion of change of venue?
    7. Mr Irish was court ordered to attend Ending the Violence with Scott Hampton, however, to date, had not completed this program. The Epson Police Department stated they were very familiar with Mr Irish, as they have responded to multiple calls, which involved Mr Irish and firearms, one fo which resulted in a pending charge for possession of a concealed weapon with out a permit. The Division became aware and confirmed that Mr Irish associated with a militia known as the "Oath Keepers" and had purchased several different types of weapons including a rifle, handgun and taser.
    Apparently there are many issues at hand and LE has been dealing with him for sometime now little little result.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  24. #24
    Regular Member swatspyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    How about what was written in the motion of change of venue?


    Apparently there are many issues at hand and LE has been dealing with him for sometime now little little result.
    Are you now FOR having to get a license to carry a CONCEALED pistol!? FFS That shouldn't even be highlighted.

    Honestly, out of everyone here, you really are the best at knowing how to be for and against something at the same time...

    And BTW, on the radio, he just explained himself on the charge of possession of a handgun without a permit. His fiance has a CPL and had her firearm in a laptop style case. They came back from him getting dental work done and was pulled over. The officers requested where her firearm was and charged him of being in possession of a concealed firearm without a permit. It was dropped from a Class B Felony to a Class B Misdemeanor.
    Last edited by swatspyder; 10-08-2010 at 07:33 PM.

  25. #25
    Regular Member 5o56x45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ainie View Post
    If you look at the rest of the reasons, they had other children taken away. And by the way it was worded it appears that there was a previous issue with him and guns including concealing without a permit. That seems to be why they were concerned with his recent purchases of guns.
    Is that why they were concerned with him being associated with a militia known as the "Oath Keepers" (militia so-called ... what a scary word right?!)?

    The Division became aware and confirmed that Mr. Irish associated with a militia known as the "Oath Keepers." and had purchased several different types of weapons including a rifle, handgun and taser.

    Am I to understand that Obeying the oath that I took to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic should be stated in an official document as reason to cause alarm let alone as a reason to take my child from me (yes I know that is probably not the only reason but it was still one of the reasons stated)?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS3H6Cakwpw
    Last edited by 5o56x45; 10-09-2010 at 02:29 AM. Reason: add a link
    "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
    Patrick Henry - March 23, 1775

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