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Thread: open carry

  1. #1
    Regular Member dizzle2's Avatar
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    open carry

    First off, i dont get how the local government can not issue an 18 year old a CPL. And secondly since i cant buy until im 21, can i open carry? and help or direction would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

  2. #2
    Regular Member dizzle2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.240

    RCW 9.41.240
    Possession of pistol by person from eighteen to twenty-one.


    Unless an exception under RCW 9.41.042, 9.41.050, or 9.41.060 applies, a person at least eighteen years of age, but less than twenty-one years of age, may possess a pistol only:

    (1) In the person's place of abode;

    (2) At the person's fixed place of business; or

    (3) On real property under his or her control.
    Thanks you. what does "In the person's place of abode" exactly mean?

  3. #3
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    I've posted this a few times on other boards and am reposting for the new folks....


    So you want to buy a pistol at the age 18 from a private seller? Lets go look at Title 18 USC 922 the section on Unlawful Acts (subsection X)
    http://www.nraila.org/federalfirearms.htm#Sec.%20922

    which states:
    (1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile:
    (A) a handgun;or
    (B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.

    (5) For purposes of this subsection, the term "juvenile" means a person who is less than 18 years of age.

    So the Feds allow you to buy a handgun at 18 from private sellers but according to Washington RCW 9.41.240 you can only carry it on your own property. WRONG because RCW 9.41.060 provides an exception for 9.41.240 as well as 9.41.050 (concealed about your person & loaded in a vehicle). Specifically look at sections 7 & 8 in RCW 9.41.060. Because of this exception you can carry that pistol concealed about your person if you are a member of a gun collector club (think WAC), going to and from the events. If you meet the requirements in section 8 (hiking, hunting, fishing, etc), you may carry that pistol to and from that activity as well.

    I am in contact with the Board of Directors from WAC and am working on rule changes for them that will allow 18-20yo Associate Members who have passed a background check to carry and buy handguns from private sellers at the shows. I'll keep you posted.

    I am not a lawyer and this is by no means legal advice.

    RCW 9.41.240
    Possession of pistol by person from eighteen to twenty-one.
    Unless an exception under RCW 9.41.042, 9.41.050, or 9.41.060 applies, a person at least eighteen years of age, but less than twenty-one years of age, may possess a pistol only:
    (1) In the person's place of abode;
    (2) At the person's fixed place of business; or
    (3) On real property under his or her control.

    RCW 9.41.050
    Carrying firearms.
    (1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.
    (b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.
    (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
    (b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.
    (3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
    (b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.
    (4) Nothing in this section permits the possession of firearms illegal to possess under state or federal law.

    RCW 9.41.060
    Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms.
    The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to:
    (1) Marshals, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens or their deputies, or other law enforcement officers of this state or another state;
    (2) Members of the armed forces of the United States or of the National Guard or organized reserves, when on duty;
    (3) Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed pistol;
    (4) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of the person, if possessing, using, or carrying a pistol in the usual or ordinary course of the business;
    (5) Regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive pistols from the United States or from this state;
    (6) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of target shooting, when those members are at or are going to or from their places of target practice;

    (7) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of modern and antique firearm collecting, when those members are at or are going to or from their collector's gun shows and exhibits;

    (8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;

    (9) Any person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper; or
    (10) Law enforcement officers retired for service or physical disabilities, except for those law enforcement officers retired because of mental or stress-related disabilities. This subsection applies only to a retired officer who has: (a) Obtained documentation from a law enforcement agency within Washington state from which he or she retired that is signed by the agency's chief law enforcement officer and that states that the retired officer was retired for service or physical disability; and (b) not been convicted or found not guilty by reason of insanity of a crime making him or her ineligible for a concealed pistol license.

    Title 18 USC Section 922 - Unlawful acts (see subsection X)
    (1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile:
    (A) a handgun;or
    (B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
    (2) It shall be unlawful for any person who is a juvenile to knowingly possess:
    (A) a handgun;or
    (B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.

    (3) This subsection does not apply to:
    (A) a temporary transfer of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile or to the possession or use of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile if the handgun and ammunition are possessed and used by the juvenile:
    (i) in the course of employment, in the course of ranching or farming related to activities at the residence of the juvenile (or on property used for ranching or farming at which the juvenile, with the permission of the property owner or lessee, is performing activities related to the operation of the farm or ranch), target practice, hunting, or a course of instruction in the safe and lawful use of a handgun;
    (ii) with the prior written consent of the juvenile's parent or guardian who is not prohibited by Federal, State, or local law from possessing a firearm, except:
    (I) during transportation by the juvenile of an unloaded handgun in a locked container directly from the place of transfer to a place at which an activity described in clause (i) is to take place and transportation by the juvenile of that handgun, unloaded and in a locked container, directly from the place at which such an activity took place to the transferor or;
    (II) with respect to ranching or farming activities as described in clause(i), a juvenile may possess and use a handgun or ammunition with the prior written approval of the juvenile's parent or legal guardian and at the direction of an adult who is not prohibited by Federal, State or local law from possessing a firearm;
    (iii) the juvenile has the prior written consent in the juvenile's possession at all times when a handgun is in the possession of the juvenile; and
    (iv) in accordance with State and local law;
    (B) a juvenile who is a member of the Armed Forces of the United States or the National Guard who possesses or is armed with a handgun in the line of duty;
    (C) a transfer by inheritance of title (but not possession) of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile;or
    (D) the possession of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile taken in defense of the juvenile or other persons against an intruder into the residence of the juvenile or a residence in which the juvenile is an invited guest.
    (4) A handgun or ammunition, the possession of which is transferred to a juvenile in circumstances in which the transferor is not in violation of this subsection shall not be subject to permanent confiscation by the Government if its possession by the juvenile subsequently becomes unlawful because of the conduct of the juvenile, but shall be returned to the lawful owner when such handgun or ammunition is no longer required by the Government for the purposes of investigation or prosecution.
    (5) For purposes of this subsection, the term "juvenile" means a person who is less than 18 years of age.

  4. #4
    Regular Member dizzle2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Where you live. It also includes hotel rooms that you rent and RV's when parked and not on the road.
    so this means that I cant carry a pistol in a holster on my side in public for my own personal protection because i'm not 21?

  5. #5
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    In Washington, at 18 years old, you can buy a handgun from another Washington State resident
    As long as it is not part of a Straw Purchase scheme. If a private party has a handgun they want to sell, you can legally buy it. If they bought it with the knowledge that they were going to be selling it to you then both transactions could be viewed as illegal.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  6. #6
    Regular Member dizzle2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    As long as it is not part of a Straw Purchase scheme. If a private party has a handgun they want to sell, you can legally buy it. If they bought it with the knowledge that they were going to be selling it to you then both transactions could be viewed as illegal.
    exactly. but can i carry the thing openly on my side in public?

  7. #7
    Regular Member dizzle2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Under the limited circumstances explained by M1Gunr you can. Not under those limited circumstances, no. For instance, let's say you have a fishing license and fishing pole and are "going fishing". You can wear your gun from your house, to your car, in your car on your way to your fishing spot, out and about at the location of fishing. However, don't stop and go into 7-11 for a soda on your way, because now you have called into question if going into 7-11 can be considered on the way to a fishing location.

    Outside of those specific exceptions, you have to carry the gun unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper. Unloaded and in the case you can carry it anywhere a 21+ person can.

    I agree with M1Gunr, 18+ persons should be able to go to gun shows and buy handguns from private parties. I don't agree with WAC's monopoly on gun shows so I won't join WAC or go to their gun shows.
    oh ok. gotcha. so if i went backpacking i could carry it in a holster and whatnot. but not in public or else it has to be unloaded and in a case? still unconstitutional though. haha

  8. #8
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzle2 View Post
    Thanks you. what does "In the person's place of abode" exactly mean?
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Where you live. It also includes hotel rooms that you rent and RV's when parked and not on the road.
    Great information is being provided here and I would like to add when it comes to your place of abode.
    This encompass your house and attached items as an attached garage, deck or porch, note this does not cover your front or backyard nor driveway.
    As mentioned before this includes as well a hotel room, an RV you are using as a resident at the time and may well include even a tent of sorts.

    Take time to read the posted laws and know them inside and out.

    note I did not quote other information that is very valuable as this post would be way to long and just repeating it over again.
    Last edited by BigDave; 10-08-2010 at 09:10 PM.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  9. #9
    Regular Member dizzle2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Great information is being provided here and I would like to add when it comes to your place of abode.
    This encompass your house and attached items as an attached garage, deck or porch, note this does not cover your front or backyard nor driveway.
    As mentioned before this includes as well a hotel room, an RV you are using as a resident at the time and may well include even a tent of sorts.

    Take time to read the posted laws and know them inside and out.

    note I did not quote other information that is very valuable as this post would be way to long and just repeating it over again.
    is there any work being done to re-write the laws so they comply with the constitution? I mean 18 is when you are an adult and when all rights are granted to you, so why then do they put limits on guns? this is a load of b.s., look at england for god sake gun control hasn't worked for them!

  10. #10
    Regular Member maclean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzle2 View Post
    is there any work being done to re-write the laws so they comply with the constitution? I mean 18 is when you are an adult and when all rights are granted to you, so why then do they put limits on guns? this is a load of b.s., look at england for god sake gun control hasn't worked for them!
    There are two ages of majority in most States, and a lot of it is Federally influenced.

    You can't drink at 18 either.
    Squeak!

  11. #11
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    I think Poo is working on this. Find him and PM him.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

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  12. #12
    Regular Member dizzle2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    There are two ages of majority in most States, and a lot of it is Federally influenced.

    You can't drink at 18 either.
    well, at least england got one thing right then.lol. the constitution doesnt grant the right to drink though either.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    There are two ages of majority in most States, and a lot of it is Federally influenced.

    You can't drink at 18 either.
    One exception, if in the military and on base.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  14. #14
    Regular Member dizzle2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    One exception, if in the military and on base.
    next question. can i carry a marlin .22lr across my back in public then?

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzle2 View Post
    is there any work being done to re-write the laws so they comply with the constitution? I mean 18 is when you are an adult and when all rights are granted to you, so why then do they put limits on guns? this is a load of b.s., look at england for god sake gun control hasn't worked for them!
    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    I think Poo is working on this. Find him and PM him.
    Yes, Poosharker is working on a bill and other things.
    Live Free or Die!

  16. #16
    Regular Member dizzle2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Yes, Poosharker is working on a bill and other things.
    ok. thanks ill try and pm him.

  17. #17
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzle2 View Post
    next question. can i carry a marlin .22lr across my back in public then?
    (14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry.
    I would not recommend it.
    Last edited by BigDave; 10-09-2010 at 01:22 AM.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  18. #18
    Regular Member dizzle2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    I would not recommend it.
    haha. oops. sorry. btw i couldnt find Poosharker on here....?

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzle2 View Post
    haha. oops. sorry. btw i couldnt find Poosharker on here....?
    He changed his name!

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/me...-GreenIsFaster
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  20. #20
    Regular Member dizzle2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Thank you sir. are you aware the term "live free or die" also happens to be the New Hampshire motto on the licence plate? haha

  21. #21
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    What, is this a growing trend around here ? Change that name
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  22. #22
    Regular Member dizzle2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    What, is this a growing trend around here ? Change that name
    i know! most places u cant do that

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzle2 View Post
    Thank you sir. are you aware the term "live free or die" also happens to be the New Hampshire motto on the license plate? ha ha
    I picked it for that reason. It is with out a doubt the most poignant quote of our founding.
    Live Free or Die!

  24. #24
    Regular Member dizzle2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    I picked it for that reason. It is with out a doubt the most poignant quote of our founding.
    I couldn't agree with you more!

  25. #25
    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    Yes, Kevin Schmadeka of the Freedom Restoration Project and I are working on revising some laws in WA, to extend concealed carry to 18 but not yet OC, as some of the members here and outside don't like the idea of an 18 year old carrying openly without a permit/license..

    I have wrote up a guide about "18-20 carry" but am slacking and haven't published it quite yet.

    Before you jump into what and how you can carry, take some time to browse the different sections of this forum and read. Just read, almost every question you can ask has been covered.

    I joined this forum long before I owned my own handgun and now when I use RCW 9.41.060 to my advantage, I am very confident in being armed and blending in with everyone else.





    And a tip for using the search function...USE VERY BROAD GENERAL TERMS. Preferably one word, and just scroll through the results. These forum searches aren't as powerful as google.


    Been harassed by the police? Yelled at by the anti-gun neighbors? Mother doesn't approve?

    Then this is the place for you! Click here to get back at them!

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