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Thread: Utah Lawmaker Seeks Constitutional Carry Bill in Utah

  1. #1
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    Utah Lawmaker Seeks Constitutional Carry Bill in Utah

    http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=12752557


    SALT LAKE CITY -- A Utah lawmaker wants to do away with the requirement to have a permit to legally carry a concealed weapon. While the legislation to change the law is yet to be written, it's already the center of a controversy.

    Last year, a record 71,000 Utahns applied for a concealed weapons permit; more than 250,000 have been issued by the state. But if Orem Rep. Stephen Sandstrom's legislation were to pass, Utahns would no longer need one, nor would they need the additional criminal background class or training course that are currently required.

    "I think that responsible, law-abiding people are going to take that responsibility on and they're going to use [the gun] properly." - Rep. Stephen Sandstrom
    Sandstrom describes himself as a "Second Amendment purist." He's held a concealed weapons permit since 1994 and estimates he carries a gun about 70 percent of the time.

    Utah's current requirements to obtain a permit, he says, should go away.

    "You don't take a course and pay a fee to exercise your freedom of religion," Sandstrom says. "This is a guaranteed right."

    The lawmaker is preparing to write a bill that would allow Utahns to carry concealed without taking any extra steps. If it passed, Utah would join Arizona, Vermont and Alaska as the only states in the nation where you can pack without a permit

    "I think that responsible, law-abiding people are going to take that responsibility on and they're going to use it properly," Sandstrom says.


    Should Rep. Stephen Sandstrom's bill pass, Utah would join Arizona, Vermont and Alaska as the only states in the nation where you can carry a gun without a permit.
    Steven Gunn, who sits on the Gun Violence Prevention Center of Utah's board, believes Sandstrom's bill is the opposite of what should happen during the 2011 legislative session.

    "I don't think it's a healthy thing for our state to have large numbers of people carrying concealed weapons," Gunn says. "I think ultimately that leads to accidents and even confrontations with firearms that are not necessary."

    Utah's current requirements are already viewed as some of the most lax in the nation. In fact, just under half of the permits given in Utah belong to out-of-state residents.

    Some states, like New Mexico and Nevada, have stopped honoring Utah permits because applicants are not required to fire at a range as part of the training course.

    If Sandstrom's bill was to pass, it still would be possible to get a concealed carry permit in the state if you needed one to travel out of state.

  2. #2
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    Utahns should be able to exercise their Right to Carry a Firearm either Openly or Concealed.
    Constitutional Carry is a VERY real possibility for MANY Rural Western States next Legislative Session.

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    I will add to Aardvark's list.....

    Repeal any States Law requiring a Permit of any kind to exercize a Fundamental right!
    Repeal of the Fed GFSZ Law
    Abolish the BATFE and several other Unconstitutional Federal Agencies
    Repeal ALL the various States GF Zone laws
    Repeal ANY waiting period on the purchase of a firearm
    Allow Any Person WHO HAS COMPLETED THEIR ENTIRE SENTENCE AND PAROLE a full return of ALL civil rights
    Abolish the silly tax on ALL so called NFA weapons/silencers ect.
    Eliminate the State of Washington's silly law allowing ownership of a Silencer but making it a Crime to install same on a firearm!

    I am sure I missed some, and some may disagree with some of what I've suggested but Deal with it.... or better yet--- Start another thread and let the debates begin!

    True, several of these don't apply to UTAH for which I am grateful but I am not just looking at UTAH

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    JoeSparky:

    I agree ALL of your proposals! Even Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(2) concedes that the term 'InterState of Foreign Commerce' means:

    'Commerce between any place in a State and any place outside of that State, or within any possession of the United States (not including the Canal Zone) or the District of Columbia, but such term does not include Commerce between places within the same State but through any place outside of that State. The term 'State' includes the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and the possessions of the United States (not including the Canal Zone).'

    However, I think that the Implementation of Firearm Freedom Statutes, similiar to those already in place by Montana and Utah, will further preclude Federal Enforcement of Federal Law in certain States, in light of the Statuory Definition of 'InterState or Foreign Commerce' as per Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 9219(a)(2), as above.

    Understanably, Federal Firearms Laws still apply in Cases of either: 1. InterState Commerce, OR 2. Foreign Commerce, HOWEVER; such Prohibitions and Laws simply can not be applicaple in States that have enacted Firearm Freedom Statutes whereupon such Firearms are sold to Citizen Residents of those certain States, and kept in the same State.

    I estimate that upwards of 15 States will introduce Firearm Freedom Statutes in the upcoming Legislative Session, especially when one considers that some States only hold Legislative Sessions in odd-numbered years, ex. 2011.

    It will be interesting to see as to whether or not Federal Judges will uphold the 10th Amendment of The Constitution of The United States of America, given that Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(2) holds The 10th Amendment as true.

    aadvark

    P.S.: States that have enacted Firearms Freedom Statutes: 1. Arizona, 2. Alaska, 3. Idaho, 4. Montana, 5. South Dakota, 6. Tennessee, 7. Utah, and 8. Wyoming!

    P.S.2: H.R. 3021, dubbed as The Citizens Protection Act of 2009, would REPEAL 18 U.S.C. 922(q) entirely! It is currently in The Crime, Terroroism, and HomeLand Security Committee, BUT is unlikely to make it to The Floor before November. 2, 2010.
    Last edited by aadvark; 10-10-2010 at 02:48 PM.

  5. #5
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    I am for this Bill!

    I am a Utah Concealed Carry Instructor and I am a 2nd Amendment purist as well, so I am for this bill. I will do what I can to help this bill become law in Utah! This is the reason why I teach the CFP classes is to help more Utahans to become armed citizens, it sure in heck is not to make a lot of money!
    Utah Certified Concealed Firearms Permit Instructor
    NRA Pistol Instructor & RSO

    Lover of Freedom

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    Pray, Tell.....Why?

    Why should there need to be any law "ensuring" gun "rights" in the state when this is the state constitution?

    http://le.utah.gov/~code/const/htm/00I01_000600.htm

    Article I, Section 6. [Right to bear arms.]
    The individual right of the people to keep and bear arms for security and defense of self, family, others, property, or the state, as well as for other lawful purposes shall not be infringed; but nothing herein shall prevent the Legislature from defining the lawful use of arms.

    Keep and carry any way you wish, it reads. Of course, when you pull the trigger, then action/consequence takes place.

    Of course, I'm still baffled how the legislature can rightly establish the infringements in 76-10-500 thru 505 that obviously are in direct defiance of the constitution. Call me a simpleton!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebeye View Post
    Why should there need to be any law "ensuring" gun "rights" in the state when this is the state constitution?
    As I understand it,the proposed bill would essentially be a repeal of current statutes that make it a crime to CC or carry loaded without a permit. It would bring Utah's gun laws in much closer conformity with out State (and federal) Constitution in terms of respecting RKBA that is currently the case.

    Charles

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    Please would the state legislature REPEAL also this stupid weapons in colleges, university, trade school, art school, roving school field trip zones and probably K-12 grade restrictions!

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    JoeSparky:

    Utah allows those with Utah Permits to Carry Firearms into Schools, in accordance with Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 922(q)(2)(B)(ii)!

    aadvark

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    JoeSparky:

    Utah allows those with Utah Permits to Carry Firearms into Schools, in accordance with Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 922(q)(2)(B)(ii)!

    aadvark
    Agreed, and I would like both the silly federal restrictions that are limited to K-12 schools AND Utah's restrictions that include K-12, daycare, colleges, universities, trade schools, school field trip locations, ect ALL repealed so that anyone who can legally possess a firearm can legally be in any of these areas WITHOUT THE NEED FOR A PERMIT!

    Innocent UNTIL proven guilty in a court of law and the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall be Unabridged have certainly taken a beating in the last 40 years or so!
    Last edited by JoeSparky; 11-15-2010 at 04:57 PM.

  11. #11
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    I agree

    Quote Originally Posted by Pistol Pete Utah View Post
    I am a Utah Concealed Carry Instructor and I am a 2nd Amendment purist as well, so I am for this bill. I will do what I can to help this bill become law in Utah! This is the reason why I teach the CFP classes is to help more Utahans to become armed citizens, it sure in heck is not to make a lot of money!
    I too am a (newly minted) Utah Concealed Carry Instructor and a 2nd Amendment purist as well, so like Pete, I favor this Bill. As recently discussed with UHP Instructors at BCI Instructor School, the Bill does nothing about the Federal Gun Free School Zone matter. To carry in a GFSZ, you will need a CFP. Likewise, the mandated instant background check will likely still cost $$ and only a CFP gets by that.

    Like Pete, I did not get my CFP instructor permit to make money in Utah. I have however heard tales from UHP about folks with Utah CFP Instructor making tons of money in the Eastern States.
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    I will add to Aardvark's list.....

    Repeal any States Law requiring a Permit of any kind to exercize a Fundamental right!
    Repeal of the Fed GFSZ Law
    Abolish the BATFE and several other Unconstitutional Federal Agencies
    Repeal ALL the various States GF Zone laws
    Repeal ANY waiting period on the purchase of a firearm
    Allow Any Person WHO HAS COMPLETED THEIR ENTIRE SENTENCE AND PAROLE a full return of ALL civil rights
    Abolish the silly tax on ALL so called NFA weapons/silencers ect.
    Eliminate the State of Washington's silly law allowing ownership of a Silencer but making it a Crime to install same on a firearm!

    I am sure I missed some, and some may disagree with some of what I've suggested but Deal with it.... or better yet--- Start another thread and let the debates begin!

    True, several of these don't apply to UTAH for which I am grateful but I am not just looking at UTAH
    I also agre holehartedly, only thing I would ad is reinstate gallos in every county court house yard and hang every murderer, rapest or child molester for all to see, I know it sounds harsh, but it mite make potential gang bangers or thugs think twice.

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