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Thread: What the HELL is up with RMGO?

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    What the HELL is up with RMGO?

    I tried like the dickens to send them some key information for more than an hour, but they seem to have have shut themselves off from any and all forms of communication from us law-abiding citizens.

    When organizations no longer feel the need to listen to feedback, they're no longer working for us, but rather, themselves, and/or some higher $$$ calling into which they've tapped.

    KNOCK IT OFF, DUDLEY.

    If you can't re-open your doors, and in a real, verifiable way, we'll simply list you as one of the subverted organizations, period, bar none, no recourse, no we'll not ever trust yu again, your funds will dry up, your dream of usurping the organization to fund your retirement will also dry up, and you will soon be facing federal charges on many accounts.

    Or you can simply re-open the doors with respect to the organization's original charter...

    Your choice.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Don't even get me started on RMGO.
    I had an interesting email conversation with Mr. Dudley awhile back and was quite taken aback by his comments
    related to the OC/CC stuff that's going on with CU at the moment.

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Ok? So they've grown too tall for their britches?

    I've room for one more org on Meetup.com, and would be more than happy to host a RMGO-type group, there, free of charge, to help put the word out.

    If Dudley ever manages to pull head out of..., more power to him. In the meantime, I'll answer 100% of all e-mails.

    Anyone interested in a Colorado Carry meetup group?
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    My lawsuit is cleaning up after his mess....

    In 2007, he decided not to sit at the table and suggest an Arizona/Washington/Kansas-style system when the Democrats were pushing for home state permits recognition only (SB07-34).

    Instead of coming to the table with suggestions to significantly improve the situation (because it had a lot of support throughout the Democrat caucus), he decided with the GOP to do scorched earth tactics against that bill and turned it into a universal recognition bill. It was amended on the floor back to the way it was before and it passed, screwing over the residents of 22 states who wanted to be able to carry in Denver, because a Denver resident refused to get an in-state license.

    After that, I couldn't carry in Denver. The Denver City Attorney fought tooth and nail a year before to keep their open carry ban and they won at the Supreme Court via a split-operation of law ruling (3-3, affirmed district court to jurisdiction level).

    So, my case against Denver was filed after I went and applied to Denver. Though the Legislature did a bad here, it is my perspective that Dudley Brown made things worse by refusing to negotiate anything at all with his "No Compromise" position, forcing me to file my lawsuit against Denver.

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    Oh man maybe I should take my RMGO sticker off my car.

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    In my "State Registered Medical Marijuana and Carrying" thread I posted his response to my concerns....

    Their website's information is obviously false and when you try to ask them about it you just get a snobby, snooty, rude attitude back from the Director.

    They are not open to suggestions...

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    What's up with RMGO

    I'm getting tired of all the e-mails asking for money if I gave every time I recieved one like this I would just send my whole paycheck LOL

    Did you get my email Thursday?

    I didn't see your response and I'm worried something may have happened.

    I'm really hoping you can help me out.

    You see, the National Association for Gun Rights must raise $175,000 by Friday, the 15th, in order to put my State Targeted Education Program into action.

    In order to do that, I need help from thousands of everyday Americans like you who will chip in $10, $20, or $30 at a time.

    So I'm hoping you'll be one of those who contribute to this effort right now.

    I'll resend my earlier email when I get back into the office Monday, but for now visit our program page here to see how you can help.

    Thanks!

    -Dudley

  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    I won't speak to the truthfulness of this posting, but this is just from searching the Copwatch forum (decided to search a few forums and see if there was anything to some rumor). This was posted by Duncan Philp over at that forum. I attempted to contact Philp to see if I could see these files verified. Unfortunately, Mr. Philp is super paranoid about meeting anyone who isn't local, and won't just hand over the files electronically to anyone. He is a sworn enemy of Brown, which is why I am recommending that someone verify this story.

    You folks in Larimer County might be able to track down the arrest record yourselves to verify what he's talking about. Nothing just disappears.....

    I post this in it's entirety so as to not quote out of context.


    DUDLEY BROWN POLICE INFORMANT !!!!

    DENVER PD SPY FILES REVEALED !!!!
    The recent release of the Denver PD spy files indicate that Dudley Brown, founder and director of Rocky Mountain Gun Owners is a police informant?

    I have suspended my membership to the RMGO and burned my membership card. I will have no dealings with cowardly police snitches like Dudley Brown who stab other gun owners in the back by working with local Gestapo agents to violate our rights and demonize law abiding gun owners. I went to Denver to pick up my spy file as the ACLU had uncovered a spy ring of police Gestapo agents and had forced these scum to release all secret files on peaceful political protestors. Upon reading the secret file I discovered that Dudley Brown, DOB ______ (Gray: redacted this part), informed on Stephen Zeigenhagen a leading member of the Tyranny Response Team. Brown told Longmont Police officer Sgt. Lewis that he observed Zeig using a laser pointer at a rally being staged both by the TRT and RMGO in which both groups were protesting the Governor of Colorado Bill Owens and his position on gun control. Brown also told Sgt. Lewis that Zeig had been seen pointing this laser pointer at police officials. I attended that rally and I have known Zeig personally for some years. He has never used a laser pointer at any of the TRT rallies, much less the one held in Longmont to protest Owens and as far as I know he doesnt even own a laser pointer.

    Brown lied. Brown is a liar and lacks credibility. Brown sought to destroy another man simply because he wanted control of the TRT and future rallies and by lying he possibly endangered the life of this man. I have filed formal charges against Brown for g iving false information to a public official, but since he is a police informant I dont expect the police to act against one of their fellow Gestapo agents. I will seek other remedies to have this liar and criminal Brown prosecuted. I also discovered upon reading my spy file that Brown has in fact been arrested for cocaine possession in Ft. Collins, Colorado and this may explain why he became a police snitch. He may have worked out some deal with the police to let him off on a lesser charge if he would fink on or lie about gun owners. And yet more indication that the police are working to disarm the citizenry by any means possible. Also part of this spy ring is one Ray Hickman a wannabe rent-a-cop who lives in Ft. Collins and is also a known associate of the local Gestapo.

    The leader of the Rocky Mountain Gun Owners (RMGO) was identified as Dudley Brown. Brown was cooperative and articulate.( Incident File Report page 1, Sgt. Lewis in regards to his informant Brown)

    Someone set off firecrackers and another individual, identified as Stephen Zeigenhagen was using a laser pointer, and pointed it several times at Colorado State patrol officers on duty at the protest. ( Incident File Report page 1, Sgt. Lewis getting information from his informant Dudley Brown).


    Needless to say, if this is true, the whole "snorting the money up one's nose" thing really has some meaning. Again, lots of OCDO folks here. See if you can find the Denver spy files or arrest files for Brown in Fort Collins, CO.

    MORE:

    Patriot for Profit Dudley Brown and others
    Since we are on the subject of Jones being a "Patriot for Profit" I shall post a list of those whom I have encountered that are also "Patriots for Profit".

    I will begin with Dudley Brown the founder and CEO of Rocky Mountain Gun Owners (RMGO)

    I think that it may have been around the year of 1992 that I had first heard of RMGO as being a new gun rights organization specific to Colorado. RMGO was an affiliate and junior organization to Gun Owners of America, founded by Larry Pratt. Some one had handed me an RMGO application for membership and I had decided to send in the $20 membership fee and joined RMGO.

    It would not be until the year 2000 that I would finally meet Dudley Brown in person. I met him at my very first TRT rally in Ft. Morgan, Colorado were we protested the appearance of Governor "Back Door" Bill Owens. Gun owners around Colorado had become upset with the fact that a so-called defender of gun rights had sold them out to the Million Mom Marchers for gun control and Safe Colorado over the issue of the Columbine Massacre.

    Brown was on scene to regulate and control the conduct of TRT members. He had been openly opposed to the idea of any kind of street protest for gun rights. During the early part of the year 2000 Bob Glass and others had this idea of doing street theatre style protest of the gun grabbers when ever they would show up in public to do one of their media hypes in regards to gun control. Glass had invited Brown to join him and others in this endeavor, but Dudley had felt that it was a bad idea and refused to throw any support our way other than he would show up to our rallies to p8g our members.

    A few months later the TRT membership would soar and become a national phenomena, something that the NRA and RMGO are quick to deny and lie about. The TRT had made the NRA and RMGO look bad to other gun owners around the nation who were all discovering how the NRA had sold us all down the river to the gun grabbers. It was after all the NRA that had written the infamous Brady Bill and did a major assist to the gun grabbers on the assualt weapons ban of the 1990's. And we now see the NRA working with the gun grabbers again with this new legislation to allow doctors the ability to decide who should not be allowed to onw a gun based on a persons mental state. (Gray's note: I am not in agreement with Philp's assessment of the NRA's involvement of what happened in the 1990's)

    Dudley saw the TRT as his mian competitor and he needed to shut us down. Unlike Brown the TRT never charged anyone for a membership fee and we never lobbied the politicians. Brown makes his living from being a professional lobbiest, just like the NRA does. It has been estimated that Brown was making between 40 to 50K a year druing the late 90's. Today Brown has announced that he wants to go national and in so doing he will compete with the GOA and his old friend Larry Pratt. (Gray's note: This is NAGR, or National Association of Gun Rights)

    On the evening of our protest in Ft. Morgan Brown had spotted me pointing a flsh light pointer at the Colorado Highway Patrol officers who were presetn to P8g us at this event. Brown walked up behind me and threatened me with violence if he were to see me using the pointer again. I told the bully boy to go f8ck himself and continued using my pointer as I saw fit. We hit it off just fien at our first meeting.


    More:

    After this protest I contacted Bob Glass to ask him about Brown's position within the TRT and Bob had told me that Brown and his side kick Ray Hickman had no standing in the TRT, that they were just there to montior and regulate those of us who would attend a TRT rally.

    My thought at the time was that this guy Brown sure has a lot of nerve getting up in my face with his macho bull****. At any of following TRT rallies I would simply ignore Brown and Hickman and write them both off as control freaks with their own agendas, as this was indeed the case with the both of them.

    I had called Brown to get some back ground info on him and had discovered that he had recently graduated CSU with a polisci degree and he was an errr so-called Christian who was opposed to any woman's right to choose. While at CSU he was a member of the young repukelicans and he had little use for any who might call themselves libertarian. He was in fact seen at a local gun show calling LP women ****** because the party platform supports a womans right to choose. If asked by an LP individual about his postion in regards to the LP he will simply lie as he has no problem taking the money from the pockets of libertarians (Gray's note here: Brown's heavy linking to the Republican party is his liability. An effective gun rights lobbyist needs to be friendly to both parties and not involving oneself in other major political issues. This is why when the two political branches of Government in Colorado was controlled by the Democratic party by January 2007, Dudley Brown's past and deep political connections to the Republican party was a massive liability. Openly calling libertarians "******" at gun shows for abortion issues while representing himself as RMGO means that his first priority is not to gun rights, but to A) His own pocket and B) Other political issues besides guns).

    Hickman I had met during the term of Sheriff Shockley and I had assisted Hickman in exposing the real nature of this former Larimier County Sheriff and gun grabber. Hickman is the ever typical Mormon who treats most non-Mormons like sh8t, to include this non-Mormon. I found both men to be arrogant know- it-alls who would treat anyone who wasn't a PC Christian like sh*t.

    It got worse as time went on. Both men would go about the business of stabbing the TRT in the back to the point of being police informants. We would find this out during the Denver PD vs the ACLU "Spy Files" case of the early 2000's. The ACLU had discovered that the Denver PD was spying on war protestors and calling Quakers of all things "Criminal Extemists". One thing led to another and the ACLU soon found out that the Denver PD spy ring included the spying on of over 2,500 people and 300 political organizations one of which was the TRT.

    The Denver PD was publicly embarassed into not only purging their files but they were also forced to give their victims copies of the files that they had kept on all of us. Hundreds of people showed up one night to get a copy of their files and of course I was there to get my copy. The copsters tried to black out the names of their informants but failed to entirely do so. In some cases people could not read the names of their informants and in other cases the blackening process had bled through and one could read the names. Such was my case and the case of other leading TRT members.

    The file sighted an incident which took place during a TRT protest in Longmont, Colorado. A Sgt. Lewis of the Longmont PD walked right up to Dudley Brown and asked him to point out the TRT ring leaders. I saw Brown pointing at Bob Glass, Stephen Zeigenhagen and myself. At the time I had no idea what was said to Lewis by Brown. The file would later reveal to me what had been said. Brown claimed that he saw Zeigenhagen pointing a laser pointer at a Longmont copster. This never happned Zeigenhagen haver had a lazer pointer that night nor during any other TRT protest. Brown also told Sgt. Lewis that I had lit off more than few fire crackers that night druing our staged protest. This never happened as well and if it had I would have been arrested as the Longmont copster were on scene prior to my being there.

    I hope that Colorado LP's and gun owning types take notice of this and burn your RMGO membership card. I still have my copy of the file and one can still read through the black ink to see Brown's name on it as an informant for the copscum. I have since learned that Brown is a big supporter of copscum in general and can be seen with a nest of them all wearing plain clothes at the RM Fifty Caliber gun shoot that are held every year near Ft. Morgan.

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    Well, I'm here.

    Bitch away.

    But, if you want to get in any REAL discussions, you're going to have to wait until after the elections, and probably talk in person or on the phone. I find posts simply don't make much headway, but can report on the face-to-face meetings that make for real headway.

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    And yes, Duncan hates me. Then he calls my office for a few years, distributes RMGO literature, and then arbitrarily dredges up old information. Then hates..... etc, etc, ad naseum.

    He is currently on a one-man crusade against Wyoming Gun Owners' Executive Director -- who, by the way, has been pushing for Constitutional Carry in Wyoming (and very nearly passed it in the 2010 session).

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Hey! Thanks for showing up!

    How about addressing some of the points raised in the posts?

    - since9
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  12. #12
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    Interestingly, while trying to report a business on RMGO, after checking one of the boxes beneath "Type of Business You are Reporting" and hitting submit, I get a "Please report the type of business you are reporting.

    I like the new layout, but it's obviously got a few bugs left yet to stomp.
    Last edited by since9; 10-16-2010 at 01:05 AM. Reason: spelling
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  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DudleyRMGO View Post
    And yes, Duncan hates me. Then he calls my office for a few years, distributes RMGO literature, and then arbitrarily dredges up old information. Then hates..... etc, etc, ad naseum.
    Which is why I:

    A) Made very clear who and where the information came from. If Duncan is a crazy person, it would be made self evident from people digging into the truth. Given the allegation, I think people need to figure out if this is true. You're 45 years old. If this is from when you were 15 or 20 years old that's one thing, or if it's a now-former friend who dropped a dimebag into your car, that's OK. But if you were intentionally transporting the stuff for your own uses and it's any time during your term at RMGO, then that's a really serious problem.

    B) Didn't quote mere snippets of it, but the whole thing. There are things I disagree with which I made clear in my notes.

    You and I have some real problems. Denver and the Legislature together did a bad too, but my intelligence on the stuff you were doing in 2007 indicates that you were the biggest one responsible for letting the situation go out of control when it came to SB07-34 (which banned recognition of licenses of the residents of 22 states, which prevents the residents of those 22 states to visit Denver from bearing arms).

    As a lobbyist, you have a responsibility to defend the interest of your membership, with both parties. The Democrats in Colorado have a wide scale belief that you involve other politics (especially political party politics) besides gun rights politics. The gun rights movement and our lobbying forces are not served by "party first" types. The calling libertarian women "******" is an indication of the truth behind this.

    Also, outside of Colorado, your organization has been apparently causing problems. Let's paint a picture:

    Luke O'Dell, NAGR's Director of Operations, registered the name "Iowa Gun Owners". According to the Iowa Corporations Database:


    Full Name LUCIUS B O'DELL
    Address PO BOX 3006
    Address 2
    City, ST, Zip BRUSH, CO, 80723

    Iowa Gun Owners then formed up again under the auspices of Aaron Dorr, the son of Paul Dorr and brother to Alexander Dorr.

    The emblem of Iowa Gun Owners is remarkably similar to NAGR.

    UPDATE: Copied from the NAGR post

    On the local level, NAGR has assisted various grassroots state organizations in everything from helping form the group to professional and financial assistance. These groups include: Wyoming Gun Owners, Iowa Gun Owners, South Dakota Gun Owners, & New Hampshire Firearms Coalition, to name a few. Many of these groups are truly on the front lines when it comes to defending individual’s rights in their home states.

    For example, the Wyoming Gun Owners group recently helped pass the “Firearms Freedom Act” and Iowa Gun Owners has been working diligently to get a true Concealed Carry law passed.


    A few truths to think about:

    No state in any time in recent history has ever went from a may-issue carry system to a Vermont/Alaska/Arizona-style system. There has always been a progression from no/may-issue to shall-issue to no license required. Even Colorado is like this.

    Iowa Gun Owners was willing to torpedo a bill which would have freed the residents county from the clutches of may-issue, a forward step, to have their pure Vermont-bill. When that didn't work and they couldn't get a majority or the governor to go with them, they attacked IowaCarry, Sean McClanahan, and the officers of IowaCarry, who's goal was to get shall-issue in now, and then go after Vermont-style in a future session.

    The old GOA meme of "Once a bad bill is in, it will never be fixed so we need to go with Vermont from the get go" crap is just that. It's been proven wrong by bills being passed in over a dozen states to reduce places where one cannot carry, among other things.

    If NAGR is responsible for the formation of IGO and sanctioned their creation, then getting shall-issue as a first step happened despite NAGR/IGO interference. Also saved having to file a lawsuit against a sheriff, freeing up legal resources to fight another fight.

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    Where did Dudley go? This was just starting to get interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by olypendrew View Post
    Where did Dudley go? This was just starting to get interesting.
    I think he has one of them thar "life" thingermabobs. Gotta get me one of 'dem.

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    I had a Denver Spy File on me 10 years ago, largely because we were kicking the Governor (a Republican) so hard.

    At the time, we were holding protests (300+ people at a time), and so DPD and other metro PD's started "watching" us (by us, I mean those who led and organized these events, which happened quite frequently).

    So, I'd get phonecalls from the DPD "Intel" officers, trying to figure out what was going to happen at any planned protest. Most of the time I said "We'll be peacefully practicing our First Amendment rights, but I can't control who shows up, what they do, etc."

    I'm a relatively clean cut family guy, and I have no interest in breaking laws that hurt people. I'll push the envelope pretty hard, but when it comes down to it, if I see there's a distinct possibility of violence at an event we're sponsoring, I'll say something to law enforcement. And I tell police that.

    In any event, me even talking to police angered Duncan.

    Here's a newsflash: if you're a gun lobbyist, you're going to have to talk to law enforcement on a number of levels, especially candidates for sheriff, and you can't have the "ALL COPS SUCK" attitude. And though I'm the first to say that law enforcement, in a political sense, is RARELY with us on gun issues, I can't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

    Little known Fact: the lobbyist for the Colorado Association of Chiefs of Police is also the lobbyist for the only organized official anti-gun group in the state, Colorado Ceasefire Capital Fund.

    About me in college: I have done many things I'm not proud of. Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of hiding behind a username in a forum, as I do things publicly, and much of my life is up for review (especially when you have a GOP Governor who is pissed at you, and has people digging into your background for dirt). Yes, my college transgression (in 1988) was actually in the Rocky Mountain News (in 2000, I think), so it's not like this is any hot news.

    As far as SB07-34, I guess you'll have to disagree on our strategy. Fine, don't be a member.

    But here's a question (for those of you who claim we took the wrong position on that bill): tell me who YOU work with in the Capitol? That might tell me more about who you are and what you think.

    I'm not going type for the next two weeks on this issue in an attempt to rehash everything, but there are a LOT of angles to all of this, and once in a while, we get one wrong. I honestly don't remember every nuance of that fight -- I've been a gun lobbyist for 17 years -- starting my 18th now -- and I've seen more than a couple of legislative fights.

    Go ahead and give Sens. Ted Harvey, Scott Renfroe, Dave Schultheis, Greg Brophy, etc, etc, etc. and ask them about what RMGO does.

    They are BY FAR the most active, pro-gun members of the legislature.

    As for NAGR (Luke O'Dell is our operations director, which you can read about on http://www.nationalgunrights.org/about-us-2/ ), YES, we helped form Iowa Gun Owners (look them up), and emphatically endorse what they do.

    They're a sharp stick in the eye of the Establishment in Iowa.

    My impression of OC people was that they weren't compromising NRA stooges, but apparently with some, I guess I'm wrong.

    And yes, if you think running Vermont laws, and pushing for real freedom, and suing sheriffs who won't issue permits (because of the applicant's political activities), then you REALLY don't want to be a member of RMGO or NAGR.

    RMGO does NOT do everything perfectly. We have bad days, we get faulty information, we fail to raise the funds to do all of the things we think are important, and we (NAGR and RMGO staff) always have too many things we want to do (and, like triage, we have to make on-the-fly judgments).

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    Gray, thanks for cleaning up Dudley's mess

    Gray, thanks again for cleaning up Dudley's mess with your Peterson v LaCabe lawsuit to ensure equal protection of all people (14th amendment stuff) when they apply for a CHL, regardless of where they live.

    Equal access to CHL's is more important then the state database of permit holders... LOL

    And your lawsuit aims to do exactly that!!!

    So did RMGO help you at all in your lawsuit against Denver, or are they 'sitting this one out' as usual?

    I didn't know RMGO stood for Republican Male Gun Owners. That is part of the reason Colorado is stuck with that unconsitutional law that recognizes only resident permits.

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    First of all, I have 10 people a week bring "lawsuit ideas" to my office. If I had the staff to sift through all of them, I'm sure we'd find some gems. But, sometimes we have to let others go with it.

    But, pitching it in a forum isn't the best strategy to get my attention. Might work for others.

    You're wrong, Jared. That bill passed because -- here's a novel concept -- the left had the votes.

    If you're mad (near as I can tell, Gray and Jared share this as a reason to be upset over SB03-34) because RMGO didn't retreat to a more defensible position, then I'll wish you luck and let you do your own thing. We're not going to endorse gun control because "it's the best we can get." That's the NRA's gig, not ours.

    Also, be sure to let me know when you're "operating" in the Capitol (doubt it's ever happened, but just in case it does), as I'll let our guys (the pro-gun legislators) know to stay away from you.

    I renew my call above. Let's hear even ONE name of a legislator you're working with, or where you got your information. I'm betting we'll never hear it.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DudleyRMGO View Post
    First of all, I have 10 people a week bring "lawsuit ideas" to my office. If I had the staff to sift through all of them, I'm sure we'd find some gems. But, sometimes we have to let others go with it.

    But, pitching it in a forum isn't the best strategy to get my attention. Might work for others.

    You're wrong, Jared. That bill passed because -- here's a novel concept -- the left had the votes.

    If you're mad (near as I can tell, Gray and Jared share this as a reason to be upset over SB03-34) because RMGO didn't retreat to a more defensible position, then I'll wish you luck and let you do your own thing. We're not going to endorse gun control because "it's the best we can get." That's the NRA's gig, not ours.

    Also, be sure to let me know when you're "operating" in the Capitol (doubt it's ever happened, but just in case it does), as I'll let our guys (the pro-gun legislators) know to stay away from you.

    I renew my call above. Let's hear even ONE name of a legislator you're working with, or where you got your information. I'm betting we'll never hear it.
    I have a slightly positive opinion of your organization, and get your emails. Stick around on this forum and you have an opportunity to push opinions into the fully favorable column--and maybe pick up some money. The Colorado forum here is widely attended and has some very strong members. The type you could use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    I have a slightly positive opinion of your organization, and get your emails. Stick around on this forum and you have an opportunity to push opinions into the fully favorable column--and maybe pick up some money. The Colorado forum here is widely attended and has some very strong members. The type you could use.

    This is leaving a bad taste in my mouth.
    Quote Originally Posted by DudleyRMGO View Post
    My impression of OC people was...
    From looking around their site it did not appear they were too fond of OC and this may confirm it.
    Last edited by Kingfish; 10-13-2010 at 03:55 PM.

  21. #21
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    Not too fond of OC?

    I OC almost every day (unless I'm at the Capitol, where Denver prohibits via "brandishing" B.S.). Downtown Fort Collins? Greeley? Almost weekly.

    And everyone in my office OC's in the office, and often elsewhere.

    Seriously: where were you in 1994-2003, when we debated this stuff? I was at the Capitol...every day..... taking a beating for not selling out.

    The 9 year battle for "Shall Issue" concealed carry was brutal. And those very few people (I don't know of one actual lobbyist except myself) and thankfully larger number of legislators who stood firmly against step backwards were called every name in the book.

    SB03-25, which was the preemption law (is, for that matter), originally stated that no municipality could ban open carry.... but then it was compromised by the NRA (another brilliant strategic move, which I'm sure Gray here will applaud).

    Anyone who even uttered "Open Carry" was shushed. (much like anyone who pushed Constitutional Carry).

    Thankfully, I don't take shushing well.

    So, if you're actually asking about RMGO's/my opinion of open carry, there you have it.

    If you're trying to poke a sharp stick our way, I'll push back.

  22. #22
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DudleyRMGO View Post
    Not too fond of OC?

    I OC almost every day (unless I'm at the Capitol, where Denver prohibits via "brandishing" B.S.). Downtown Fort Collins? Greeley? Almost weekly.

    And everyone in my office OC's in the office, and often elsewhere.

    Seriously: where were you in 1994-2003, when we debated this stuff? I was at the Capitol...every day..... taking a beating for not selling out.

    The 9 year battle for "Shall Issue" concealed carry was brutal. And those very few people (I don't know of one actual lobbyist except myself) and thankfully larger number of legislators who stood firmly against step backwards were called every name in the book.
    Except the problem with your assumption was that once a shall-issue carry law passed (like some of the bad NRA bills, which I will agree with you were really bad), was that no improvements could be or ever would be done. This was the standard Gun Owners of America line back in the 1990's, that no shall-issue law, with all the restrictions in it, would ever repeal their restrictions. The situation in the last 5 years, with restriction repealer bills, has proven that contention to be a lie.

    That being said, Romer pretty much said that he would veto any shall-issue bill of any form.

    You're wrong, Jared. That bill passed because -- here's a novel concept -- the left had the votes.
    You mean "anti-gun", right? You see, that right there is exactly why you're are now an ineffective lobbyist. You don't seperate politicians from pro-gun and anti-gun. If they see you as a shill for a political party (Republican) or a political idealogy (conservatism), you'll make no inroads with the current majority party. Semi-professional gun lobbyists have no business mixing together other politics, which you have been proven to do repeatedly.

    Exactly what were you doing in 2004 to 2006 in the Capitol, while you had 2 years of one party rule? Where you fixing the preemption statute to have stronger language? Where you opening up the permitting system to non-resident applicants? What exactly where you doing? And don't blame the NRA for your failings, either. You want to call yourself the "The" Gun lobbyist in Colorado? Then you need to take responsibility for your failure to move the civil liberties of RMGO members, the residents of Colorado and the visitors to Colorado forward during that period of time, instead of blaming others for your own failings.

    SB03-25, which was the preemption law (is, for that matter), originally stated that no municipality could ban open carry.... but then it was compromised by the NRA (another brilliant strategic move, which I'm sure Gray here will applaud).
    So, would that have passed constitutional muster in Judge Meyer's court without being struck down? If this was the case, why wasn't there an attempt between 2003-2006 to actually correct that language in the Colorado Legislature? Were you relying on the courts to make the correct ruling in the SB25 litigation, the same court system which ruled Article II Section XIII to not be a fundamental right?

    Pointing at the NRA and blaming them for your lack of forward progress and begging for money at the same time shows how ineffective you are. I'm not pointing the finger at RMGO membership (which are in fact made up of good people) I am pointing the finger solely at you for you being ineffective post SB24/SB25.

    In fact, the Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, have been more effective in Colorado than you have.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DudleyRMGO View Post
    First of all, I have 10 people a week bring "lawsuit ideas" to my office. If I had the staff to sift through all of them, I'm sure we'd find some gems. But, sometimes we have to let others go with it.

    But, pitching it in a forum isn't the best strategy to get my attention. Might work for others.

    You're wrong, Jared. That bill passed because -- here's a novel concept -- the left had the votes.

    If you're mad (near as I can tell, Gray and Jared share this as a reason to be upset over SB03-34) because RMGO didn't retreat to a more defensible position, then I'll wish you luck and let you do your own thing. We're not going to endorse gun control because "it's the best we can get." That's the NRA's gig, not ours.

    Also, be sure to let me know when you're "operating" in the Capitol (doubt it's ever happened, but just in case it does), as I'll let our guys (the pro-gun legislators) know to stay away from you.

    I renew my call above. Let's hear even ONE name of a legislator you're working with, or where you got your information. I'm betting we'll never hear it.
    Legislators. I've worked in Providence over gun issues in the mid 2000's. I'm the vice president of CRAL in Rhode Island. We've made some police chiefs follow the shall issue law, we are also working on a lawsuit that would legalize all knives, billyclubs and all other "arms".

    Gray Peterson and I did the legwork to get the federal lawsuit rolling to repeal the Alien Firearms Licensing statute in Washington State, now resident aliens and even non-immigrant aliens are treated like human being with fundamental rights in Washington.

    I worked with the Nevada House Judiciary Committee in effort to get Nevada's permit recognition law passed. I contacted EVERY rep and explained how the Nye County and Clark County Sheriff's were flaunting the law and why the recognition law would help alleviate all that.


    Other than that Dudley, I guess I haven't done much.

  24. #24
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jared View Post
    Legislators. I've worked in Providence over gun issues in the mid 2000's. I'm the vice president of CRAL in Rhode Island. We've made some police chiefs follow the shall issue law, we are also working on a lawsuit that would legalize all knives, billyclubs and all other "arms".
    Cue press release attacking us as anti-gunners or compromisers in 5...4....3....2....1....

  25. #25
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    Gray, you hit the nail on the head. Dudley is not able to seperate gun politics from his other beliefs. This is a death sentence for any focus group in any capitol.

    In Rhode Island we had virtually all democrats to work with, some were very liberal and some of those were very good to us.


    If we had the Dudley mentality and ran up and down the halls badmouthing the liberals for being pro choice or whatever, how much do you think we would have accomplished?????

    Dudley, no one is taking away from what you have accomplished; however, you have dropped the ball as Gray pointed out. The NRA does cause some problems in capitols around the country (they sabatoged Arizonas restaurant carry bill) but they are not to blame for all your problems.

    In Rhode Island, we would have loved to have had the legislature you guys had around 2004. So don't blame others.

    If you want to fly the republican flag, then expect to get your butt handed to you when the democrats take over (as they have done in Colorado).

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