What the HELL is up with RMGO?

Not too fond of OC?

I OC almost every day (unless I'm at the Capitol, where Denver prohibits via "brandishing" B.S.). Downtown Fort Collins? Greeley? Almost weekly.

And everyone in my office OC's in the office, and often elsewhere.

Seriously: where were you in 1994-2003, when we debated this stuff? I was at the Capitol...every day..... taking a beating for not selling out.

The 9 year battle for "Shall Issue" concealed carry was brutal. And those very few people (I don't know of one actual lobbyist except myself) and thankfully larger number of legislators who stood firmly against step backwards were called every name in the book.

SB03-25, which was the preemption law (is, for that matter), originally stated that no municipality could ban open carry.... but then it was compromised by the NRA (another brilliant strategic move, which I'm sure Gray here will applaud).

Anyone who even uttered "Open Carry" was shushed. (much like anyone who pushed Constitutional Carry).

Thankfully, I don't take shushing well.

So, if you're actually asking about RMGO's/my opinion of open carry, there you have it.

If you're trying to poke a sharp stick our way, I'll push back.

DudleyRMGO said:

Not too fond of OC?

I OC almost every day (unless I'm at the Capitol, where Denver prohibits via "brandishing" B.S.). Downtown Fort Collins? Greeley? Almost weekly.

And everyone in my office OC's in the office, and often elsewhere.

Seriously: where were you in 1994-2003, when we debated this stuff? I was at the Capitol...every day..... taking a beating for not selling out.

The 9 year battle for "Shall Issue" concealed carry was brutal. And those very few people (I don't know of one actual lobbyist except myself) and thankfully larger number of legislators who stood firmly against step backwards were called every name in the book.

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Except the problem with your assumption was that once a shall-issue carry law passed (like some of the bad NRA bills, which I will agree with you were really bad), was that no improvements could be or ever would be done. This was the standard Gun Owners of America line back in the 1990's, that no shall-issue law, with all the restrictions in it, would ever repeal their restrictions. The situation in the last 5 years, with restriction repealer bills, has proven that contention to be a lie.

That being said, Romer pretty much said that he would veto any shall-issue bill of any form.

You're wrong, Jared. That bill passed because -- here's a novel concept -- the left had the votes.

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You mean "anti-gun", right? You see, that right there is exactly why you're are now an ineffective lobbyist. You don't seperate politicians from pro-gun and anti-gun. If they see you as a shill for a political party (Republican) or a political idealogy (conservatism), you'll make no inroads with the current majority party. Semi-professional gun lobbyists have no business mixing together other politics, which you have been proven to do repeatedly.

Exactly what were you doing in 2004 to 2006 in the Capitol, while you had 2 years of one party rule? Where you fixing the preemption statute to have stronger language? Where you opening up the permitting system to non-resident applicants? What exactly where you doing? And don't blame the NRA for your failings, either. You want to call yourself the "The" Gun lobbyist in Colorado? Then you need to take responsibility for your failure to move the civil liberties of RMGO members, the residents of Colorado and the visitors to Colorado forward during that period of time, instead of blaming others for your own failings.

SB03-25, which was the preemption law (is, for that matter), originally stated that no municipality could ban open carry.... but then it was compromised by the NRA (another brilliant strategic move, which I'm sure Gray here will applaud).

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So, would that have passed constitutional muster in Judge Meyer's court without being struck down? If this was the case, why wasn't there an attempt between 2003-2006 to actually correct that language in the Colorado Legislature? Were you relying on the courts to make the correct ruling in the SB25 litigation, the same court system which ruled Article II Section XIII to not be a fundamental right?

Pointing at the NRA and blaming them for your lack of forward progress and begging for money at the same time shows how ineffective you are. I'm not pointing the finger at RMGO membership (which are in fact made up of good people) I am pointing the finger solely at you for you being ineffective post SB24/SB25.

In fact, the Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, have been more effective in Colorado than you have.

DudleyRMGO said:

First of all, I have 10 people a week bring "lawsuit ideas" to my office. If I had the staff to sift through all of them, I'm sure we'd find some gems. But, sometimes we have to let others go with it.

But, pitching it in a forum isn't the best strategy to get my attention. Might work for others.

You're wrong, Jared. That bill passed because -- here's a novel concept -- the left had the votes.

If you're mad (near as I can tell, Gray and Jared share this as a reason to be upset over SB03-34) because RMGO didn't retreat to a more defensible position, then I'll wish you luck and let you do your own thing. We're not going to endorse gun control because "it's the best we can get." That's the NRA's gig, not ours.

Also, be sure to let me know when you're "operating" in the Capitol (doubt it's ever happened, but just in case it does), as I'll let our guys (the pro-gun legislators) know to stay away from you.

I renew my call above. Let's hear even ONE name of a legislator you're working with, or where you got your information. I'm betting we'll never hear it.

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Legislators. I've worked in Providence over gun issues in the mid 2000's. I'm the vice president of CRAL in Rhode Island. We've made some police chiefs follow the shall issue law, we are also working on a lawsuit that would legalize all knives, billyclubs and all other "arms".

Gray Peterson and I did the legwork to get the federal lawsuit rolling to repeal the Alien Firearms Licensing statute in Washington State, now resident aliens and even non-immigrant aliens are treated like human being with fundamental rights in Washington.

I worked with the Nevada House Judiciary Committee in effort to get Nevada's permit recognition law passed. I contacted EVERY rep and explained how the Nye County and Clark County Sheriff's were flaunting the law and why the recognition law would help alleviate all that.


Other than that Dudley, I guess I haven't done much.

Jared said:

Legislators. I've worked in Providence over gun issues in the mid 2000's. I'm the vice president of CRAL in Rhode Island. We've made some police chiefs follow the shall issue law, we are also working on a lawsuit that would legalize all knives, billyclubs and all other "arms".

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Cue press release attacking us as anti-gunners or compromisers in 5...4....3....2....1....

Gray, you hit the nail on the head. Dudley is not able to seperate gun politics from his other beliefs. This is a death sentence for any focus group in any capitol.

In Rhode Island we had virtually all democrats to work with, some were very liberal and some of those were very good to us.


If we had the Dudley mentality and ran up and down the halls badmouthing the liberals for being pro choice or whatever, how much do you think we would have accomplished?????

Dudley, no one is taking away from what you have accomplished; however, you have dropped the ball as Gray pointed out. The NRA does cause some problems in capitols around the country (they sabatoged Arizonas restaurant carry bill) but they are not to blame for all your problems.

In Rhode Island, we would have loved to have had the legislature you guys had around 2004. So don't blame others.

If you want to fly the republican flag, then expect to get your butt handed to you when the democrats take over (as they have done in Colorado).

Jared said:

If you want to fly the republican flag, then expect to get your butt handed to you when the democrats take over (as they have done in Colorado).

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I'd say more "conservative" flag than Republican, I'm saying that because of his protests against Bill Owens, who was a Republican.

Jared,

Thought we were talking about Colorado. Rhode Island isn't the best source for news in Denver.

Again, I now know why you two (and let's be clear, it's Gray and Jared) are whining: we're not wheeling and dealing types. You are correct on that -- guilty as charged.

Yes, Gray, if you ran for office, taking apologist positions, we'd drop mail on you as an anti-gunner. Your types are EXACTLY what we don't want in the State Capitol. The only way you'll make it is by running as a Democrat, in a liberal, where you can win, because we make darn sure that no one with your strategy -- or lack thereof -- wins in GOP primaries.

That doesn't mean some of the points both of you have made, including criticisms, aren't valid. We make mistakes.

www.rmgo.org/strategy is what we,and ALL of the conservatives in the State Capitol, subscribe to.

There I go, using right-left-conservative-liberal language again.

Enough bantering here. Anyone who wants to contact me can do so at office@rmgo.org

Dudley,

Gray or myself are not saying compromise or take apologist positions, but you should try to work with people even if they don't fit your political ideal. If they are willing to work with you on the 2nd amendment, don't shut them out because they may be liberal, pro taxes, pro smoking ban, or whatever. If they will work with you even in the slightest, you should try to push your agenda even if it's not to your expectations.

Take note of Steve Aikens in your neighboring state of New Mexico, he has been successful. Steve is on the same page as us on the RKBA, but he knows what he can and can't get done.

Do you really think Steve Aikens would have gotten shall-issue, reciprocity, and a strong weapons (not just firearms) preemption law written into their STATE CONSTITUTION if he badmouth the non-conservatives???? He has worked with a Democratic and liberal legislature and he gets stuff done.

Personally, I'm pretty much in line in Ron Paul, but I know you have to work with what you have.
Steve Aikens

Jared said:

Dudley,

Gray or myself are not saying compromise or take apologist positions, but you should try to work with people even if they don't fit your political ideal. If they are willing to work with you on the 2nd amendment, don't shut them out because they may be liberal, pro taxes, pro smoking ban, or whatever. If they will work with you even in the slightest, you should try to push your agenda even if it's not to your expectations.

Take note of Steve Aikens in your neighboring state of New Mexico, he has been successful. Steve is on the same page as us on the RKBA, but he knows what he can and can't get done.

Do you really think Steve Aikens would have gotten shall-issue, reciprocity, and a strong weapons (not just firearms) preemption law written into their STATE CONSTITUTION if he badmouth the non-conservatives???? He has worked with a Democratic and liberal legislature and he gets stuff done.

Personally, I'm pretty much in line in Ron Paul, but I know you have to work with what you have.

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I have to concur with this. I am as much a supporter of "Vermont" carry, where a person can make their choice as to whether or not to carry openly or concealed. I support that as a final goal.

Kansas had a bunch of bad rulings in their state court system (they were, in fact, the source of the "collective rights" crap the anti-gunners used for decades with Salina v. Blakesly). They are fixing that permanently with an amendment to their state constitution, and the way things are going, it will be overwhelmingly approved. Steve Aikens did the same thing in New Mexico.

Since the state courts in Colorado continually keep saying A2S13 isn't a fundamental right, perhaps a constitutional amendment initiative should be ran to make it so, and specifically state that all weapons and arms control laws are subject to strict scrutiny. 76,047 signatures. Sure, there's more to it, but wouldn't be better to annihilate Denver's laws via a state constitutional amendment?

What makes you think I mingle guns and other issues? As far as either RMGO or NAGR go, they don't touch any other issue... ever.

Gunslinger said:

I have a slightly positive opinion of your organization, and get your emails. Stick around on this forum and you have an opportunity to push opinions into the fully favorable column--and maybe pick up some money. The Colorado forum here is widely attended and has some very strong members. The type you could use.

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I second the motion, Dudley. I your post here quite thoroughly, and thank you for sticking around and clearing the air, particularly with respect to having more issues on your door than you have time or resources to handle. That's par for the course for nearly all managers of any endeavor. It's absolutely critical to pick people you can trust, manage them well, and be willing to get rid of anyone who's bringing you down.

As influential as RMGO is, I think you've done a great job!

Your website still needs some work...

DudleyRMGO said:

What makes you think I mingle guns and other issues? As far as either RMGO or NAGR go, they don't touch any other issue... ever.

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Liar Liar Pants on Fire

Also, from this article:

But Nikkel, who left office in January, was clearly on Brown's mind, according to one 2012 e-mail dated May 7, the day before the House was to take up a bill allowing gay couples to form civil unions. Republicans refused to call up the bill, which died during a wild night on the House floor.


In the communication, Brown called Nikkel a "turncoat," and said her "yes" vote on the bill in a House committee had kept civil unions alive. He also bragged how he had "staff members" and friends perform a "lit drop" at her church the previous day, using fliers to urge parishoners to call her.

In that same e-mail, he included attachments of the kissing-gays mailers.

Neither mentioned guns.

What was that sound? Oh, that's you lying again.

Gray Peterson said:

Liar Liar Pants on Fire

Also, from this article:

But Nikkel, who left office in January, was clearly on Brown's mind, according to one 2012 e-mail dated May 7, the day before the House was to take up a bill allowing gay couples to form civil unions. Republicans refused to call up the bill, which died during a wild night on the House floor.


In the communication, Brown called Nikkel a "turncoat," and said her "yes" vote on the bill in a House committee had kept civil unions alive. He also bragged how he had "staff members" and friends perform a "lit drop" at her church the previous day, using fliers to urge parishoners to call her.

In that same e-mail, he included attachments of the kissing-gays mailers.

Neither mentioned guns.

What was that sound? Oh, that's you lying again.

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Holy Necroposting Batman! 3 years? And only completely off topic of everything. What is this based off of?

Gray, take your meds.

I think Gray is right on.

Multipage thread over on Arfcom about Dudley and his RMGO/NAGR or whatever it's called.

Note that this thread starts out with a lie by dudley, he gets called on it, appears in the thread - but never answers the questions about his lie - and then insults the members of one of the largest gun boards on the internet. Stupid, plus a liar.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/12..._the_National_Association_for_Gun_Rights.html

JamesB said:

Holy Necroposting Batman! 3 years? And only completely off topic of everything. What is this based off of?

Gray, take your meds.

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I'm directly responding to his claim that RMGO and NAGR touches no other issue but guns, and this was recently discovered evidence that this is not the case.

My experience with Dudley is not much better.

As for Duncan Phelps, back about 10 years ago he was making threats of harm against a number of people, myself included. I made it a point to visit his home in Carpenter Wyoming to call him out on it.

I told him when I'd be there. I was 5 minutes early. He was there, he just refused to answer the door. I stayed for an hour and left.
Man, don't make any threats if ya ain't big enough to follow through.

Funny thing is, I wasn't even armed. Oh well.

JamesB said:

Holy Necroposting Batman! 3 years? And only completely off topic of everything.

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Agreed. Imagine my surprise when I discovered I'd started this thread three years ago!

None of my gripes remain valid. If people want to pick a fight with Brown, Phelps, or RMGO in general, I suggest they do it on their own thread. Not mine.