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Thread: Please do NOT frequent Colorado Liquor Outlet near Chapel Hills Mall

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Please do NOT frequent Colorado Liquor Outlet near Chapel Hills Mall

    My letter to them:

    Dear Colorado Liquor Outlet Manager:

    I am a retired USAF Officer and a law-abiding citizen. I’ve open carried in your store for more than six months, and was quite mollified when one of you employees informed me last night you’ve changed your policies regarding the your observance of the U.S. and Colorado Constitutional law with respect to open carry.

    Please review the enclosed material.

    Also, please note that until your recent policy change, I frequented your store to the tune of approximately $25 per week, gross. That’s more than $1,200 per year.

    I’ve also blacklisted your store on five different websites dealing with both U.S. Constitutional issues as well as ancillary open carry issues.

    Please let me know if you decide to change your tune. If you don’t, neither I nor hundreds (possibly thousands) of others will frequent your establishment for the duration of your very unsavory anti-Constitutional policies.

    Sincerely,

    A former customer whom you banned from purchasing at your store while I quite unceremoniously was simply, and very lawfully, exercising the Constitutional rights for which I fought (and for which some of my friends died) for more than 20 years.


    I don't know what possesses (gross ignorance? utter stupidity?) people like this to ban OC from their establishments. The deterrence factor alone is worth $10 per visit. Leftist knuckle-headedness? Gah!

    Fortunately, there are three other competitors within a few blocks who have absolutely no problem with OC and who will get my business from now on.
    Please show you support for OC (as well as CC), and chose to visit OTHER stores who support our Constitutional rights.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by since9; 10-09-2010 at 05:08 PM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    PS: I'm delivering my letter and a few supporting documents in a few minutes. I'll be out of town for the rest the weekend, however. Will let you know how things went later.

    I suspect, however, the manager will hold fast to the same HUA (head up a$$) position most lefists do in these circumstances.

    If I'm wrong, he recognizes the error of his ways, and decides to pull it out and turn about back towards the principles upon which our country was founded and for which our friends and families fought and died for...

    Then I'll be more than happy to post a retraction.

    Until then, however, he'll not get $00.01 of my business, period, bar none.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Typo in your first paragraph:

    "regarding the your observance of the U.S. and Colorado Constitutional law"

    Take out the "the" after "regarding".

  5. #5
    Regular Member Machoduck's Avatar
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    It seems it's not just guns.

    http://www.gazette.com/articles/want...dbag-bans.html

    +++++++++++++++++

    Local liquor store bans purses
    Comments 0
    August 12, 2009 1:51 PM
    ANDREA BROWN
    THE GAZETTE

    If you want to buy booze here, hand over your handbag.

    Colorado’s Liquor Outlet issued a “no purse” policy, plastering warning signs in front of the store with the sobering ultimatum: Leave your purse in the car or at the door -- or else.

    “If they try to shop, we won’t sell to them,” head cashier Laurae Langello said.

    No exceptions, ladies. No sweet talk. Workers at the door are no-nonsense purse enforcers.

    This isn’t a shady part of town, this is Briargate, by golly. It’s across the street from Chapel Hills Mall.

    The total purse ban was implemented three weeks ago to combat the increase of thefts this year at the store.

    Shop owner Wayne Harris said inventory reports were showing a loss of $2,000 a week due to shoplifters. Big purses were a big part of the problem.

    “We decided we had to do something to protect what is ours,” Harris said.

    Traditional security measures weren’t working in the 18,000 square-foot store.

    Cameras are everywhere. A live feed plays on six big flat-screens TVs. At the checkouts, LCD monitors flash images of shoplifters photographically caught in the act who are still at large.

    As if the store’s exterior isn’t forboding enough, steel grates cover the windows — the aftermath of an April break-in when thieves made off with liquor haul valued at $17,000. Adding to the fortress effect are the row of concrete barriers to keep cars at bay. A driver smashed into the wine section last year.

    “I’ve been doing this for 35 years, and I have never seen it like this,” said Harris, who opened the Briargate store 12 years ago.

    Harris blames the economy for the rise in thefts, which increased at his wife’s store, Springs Liquor Outlet, 6010 N. Carefree Circle, where purses also are banned.

    Harris said he filed a few shoplifting reports last year. “We used to handcuff them until the police showed up,” he said, but he got in trouble for doing that.

    Now, he said, he almost never files reports because it takes too long to deal with the process, and cop cars in the parking lot are bad for business.

    “It’s not worth the trouble and the effort. If we catch them, we let them go. We get our bottle back and tell them don’t ever come back in the store again.”

    The purse ban started out targeting big bags. “It made the women carrying the large purses upset because we were still allowing women with small purses,” Harris said.

    So, medium purses were banned. The purse war raged on.

    “It made the women carrying medium size and large purses mad at us. We thought, ‘What the hell, if we got 60 percent mad at us we might as well get 100 percent mad at us,” Harris said.

    Man purses and backpacks also are not allowed.

    So far, the purse ban has paid off for Harris. “I think we probably cut it (shoplifting) in half,” he said.

    Customer count is down about 5 percent. Some storm out. Some toss their discount cards in the trash. “One woman threatened to call the state attorney general,” Harris said.

    Most shrug and shed their purse after the initial disbelief.

    “I didn’t really think they were going to actually not let me take my purse in,” said regular Briargate customer Jaime Hilligrass, a 21-year-old college student buying peach schnapps for her girls’ night book club. “I was kind of like, ‘Um, it’s a purse, it’s personal.’ It was kind of weird they wouldn’t let a woman take her purse in the store.”

    The only vessels left for the five-finger discount are coats and baggy pants, but Harris has no plans to ban those.

    “We can’t make people leave their pants outside,” he said.

    Call the writer at 636-0253.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    It looks like the management equates bearing arms with criminality. Why would I care? In addition to the usual concerns over loss of rights, in practical terms, the store in question is within walking distance of one of my favorite burger places and I've been known to have a wee dram from time to time, so yea, another customer lost.

    MD

  6. #6
    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
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    Hope the parking lot has security

    Quote Originally Posted by Machoduck View Post
    http://www.gazette.com/articles/want...dbag-bans.html

    +++++++++++++++++

    Local liquor store bans purses
    Comments 0
    August 12, 2009 1:51 PM
    ANDREA BROWN
    THE GAZETTE

    If you want to buy booze here, hand over your handbag.

    Colorado’s Liquor Outlet issued a “no purse” policy, plastering warning signs in front of the store with the sobering ultimatum: Leave your purse in the car or at the door -- or else.

    “If they try to shop, we won’t sell to them,” head cashier Laurae Langello said.

    No exceptions, ladies. No sweet talk. Workers at the door are no-nonsense purse enforcers. SNIP
    So, this is a message to all purse thieves that they can just grab a ladies purse out of her vehicle from now on?

    The criminal may get lucky and score a firearm also considering the gun ban in the store.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    They do have lockers for the purses, so it's not like they're leaving people out in the cold. A $2,000 a week theft rate is huge for a store like that.

    That's not the issue, however. The issue involves their recent decision to deny our 2A rights to self-protection as clearly recognized in Colorado's State Constitution. I've open carried there since January without issue, including getting to know the clerks by name and face, then all of a sudden, an employee said, "no way." He was polite, but insistant. I simply said, "Ok, then. I'll simply take my business to the other store up the street whose owner respects our Constitutional rights" and left.

    I delivered my letter to the Asst. Store Manager Saturday afternoon, on the way to a friend's gathering for writers, astronomers, and amateur rocket builders/launchers. There were 27 people there, including 8 children, and no one had any problem with my carrying, so I'm not sure why Colorado Liquor is choosing to tread on our 2A rights.

    To be fair, the Asst. Manager did say he was unaware of any such ban, so the ban may have been an initiative taken on the part of the employee, and not actually a sanctioned move on the part of the owner. He read through my short letter and said he'd share it with the owner, so we'll see.

    I know the letter is a bit thick. However, I didn't risk my life and loose friends in the military so that either the ignorant or ill-informed would get away with denying the Constitutional rights for which I fought. It's certainly their right to do so, but it's also certainly my right to exercise my 1A rights in order to protect our 2A rights, and if that involves highlighting the non-supportive behavior of a particular establishement, so be it.
    Last edited by since9; 10-10-2010 at 06:26 PM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Anything new on this, Since?

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Anything new on this, Since?
    1. The initial response was by an employee I'd never see before, nor heard of since.

    2. The assistant mgr vehemently denied any such anti-carry doing when I contacted him later, but has yet to respond in either written (letter) or electronic (e-mail) format.

    3. I've since carried there once, but have mostly carried at a location where the owner/operator openly welcomes honest, law-abiding citizens exercising their Second Amendment rights as a means of both protecting themselves and other customers as well as a means of deterring crime/

    Conclusion: If CSL doesn't get their act together and refute what their employee vociferously communicated to me on that day, BYE-BYE. I'll forever leave them in the dust, for lack of proactive management, if for no other reason. There are simply too many (all except them, from what I can tell) outlets who fully support open carry.

    I have little respect for folks who attempt to sit on the fence.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    180 Turnaround Towards the Dark and Stupid Side

    Well, rarely do I ever call anyone "stupid," but this just takes the cake.

    The assistant manager (not the stupid one) had accepted the two pages of material I'd given him, and passed it on to his manager. Since my previous conversation with the assistant manager, I'd open-carried in the store several times without issue.

    This evening, I walked in, picked up my usual, and while checking out, the assistant manager approached me and said his manager had implemented a "No Firearms" policy, complete with a sign posted in the window. He added, "the manager checked around and discovered that firearms are not allowed by law in locations which serve or sell alcohol, or..." (he menioned three others, but I don't recall which, now)

    The assistant manager seemed genuinely apologetic, and was just the messenger, so I sort of guffawed and said, "Your manager is mis-informed. Here in the state of Colorado, it's perfectly legal to both open carry and concealed carry in each and every one of the places you just mentioned."

    He just shrugged, so I left.

    I don't mind it when store owners/managers make well-informed decisions, but when they're either fed or willingly believe a load of fertilizer, that's that's stupid.

    First, they putting themselves and their employees at increased risk because they're now a "gun free zone," with which all honest, law-abiding citizens will abide (but which the criminals will ignore, except for putting it on their "easy target list."

    Secondly, they're also doing our society a serious disservice, particularly if this mis-informed manager starts shooting his mouth off to neighboring businesses.

    So, no more wait and see, as we have waited, and we have seen.

    BOYCOTT COLORADO LIQUOR

    Here's their location, so you know where not to go.

    Before avoiding them altogether, however, note their address and phone number, and drop them a line and tell them why you're boycotting their stores (plural, as I'd heard same owner owns two here in town).

    Also, if you disagree with their policy, follow the link above, and write a (scathing) review!
    Last edited by since9; 10-27-2010 at 12:32 AM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  11. #11
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    Since9, I wanted to first tell you that I am in agreement with your move to boycott Colorado Liquor Outlet (and all other businesses owned by the same people) if there is simply no remedying the situation. However, I think that we should, individually or as a group, contact the owner(s) personally to get their version of the story and/or educate them. I suggest this because, from what I can gather from you post, it seems to be up in the air as to who actually responded with posting signs and banning OC, whether it was the manager or the owner. Please, correct me if I am missing something.

    I've done a little digging and have found that Harris Family Enterprises (name listed on their business entity history through the state is Wayne Christopher Harris but the group is an LLC) owns several liquor stores including Colorado Liquor Outlet, Springs Liquor Outlet and Falcon Liquor Outlet as well as at least one other business and possibly another liquor store. If their decision to deny law abiding citizens the right to carry in their stores stands after an appeal to the owner(s), then I will list the businesses that I have been able to locate and their contact information for verification purposes.

    Let me know what you all think, whether you agree or disagree.
    Last edited by ZackL; 10-27-2010 at 05:07 AM. Reason: Clarity

  12. #12
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZackL View Post
    Since9, I wanted to first tell you that I am in agreement with your move to boycott Colorado Liquor Outlet (and all other businesses owned by the same people) if there is simply no remedying the situation. However, I think that we should, individually or as a group, contact the owner(s) personally to get their version of the story and/or educate them. I suggest this because, from what I can gather from you post, it seems to be up in the air as to who actually responded with posting signs and banning OC, whether it was the manager or the owner. Please, correct me if I am missing something.

    I've done a little digging and have found that Harris Family Enterprises (name listed on their business entity history through the state is Wayne Christopher Harris but the group is an LLC) owns several liquor stores including Colorado Liquor Outlet, Springs Liquor Outlet and Falcon Liquor Outlet as well as at least one other business and possibly another liquor store. If their decision to deny law abiding citizens the right to carry in their stores stands after an appeal to the owner(s), then I will list the businesses that I have been able to locate and their contact information for verification purposes.

    Let me know what you all think, whether you agree or disagree.
    Good to know about the Falcon location. No business from me.

  13. #13
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    I just moved to from that side of town to near Powers and N. Carefree and there is a Springs Liquor Outlet which sounds like the same owner. I will make sure that they don't get my business.

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZackL View Post
    Since9, I wanted to first tell you that I am in agreement with your move to boycott Colorado Liquor Outlet (and all other businesses owned by the same people) if there is simply no remedying the situation. However, I think that we should, individually or as a group, contact the owner(s) personally to get their version of the story and/or educate them. I suggest this because, from what I can gather from you post, it seems to be up in the air as to who actually responded with posting signs and banning OC, whether it was the manager or the owner. Please, correct me if I am missing something.
    I hear you, ZackL, and good thought. If you'd like pics of his sign banning the carry of firearms, however, it's moments away, and I can post it here. He already bans the carry of any external conveyance, even a small belly bag, so unless you're CCing with either an in the waistband or shoulder holster rig, either of which should be under a jacket (impractical in the summer), then you're probably going to be tagged and asked to leave any externally-concealed rig behind.

    To be honest, the only guy I've dealt with is the assistant manager. For all I know, he's the defacto manager and the store owner is an absent manager.

    I've done a little digging and have found that Harris Family Enterprises (name listed on their business entity history through the state is Wayne Christopher Harris but the group is an LLC) owns several liquor stores including Colorado Liquor Outlet, Springs Liquor Outlet and Falcon Liquor Outlet as well as at least one other business and possibly another liquor store. If their decision to deny law abiding citizens the right to carry in their stores stands after an appeal to the owner(s), then I will list the businesses that I have been able to locate and their contact information for verification purposes.
    I've given some grave consideration to this move, but given what I've learned here and on other 2A rights sights, it's a definitive move in the wrong direction, as it opens the store, it's owners, and most importantly it's employees up to hostile fire.

    Those few of you who know me, I can't tell you how much I'm wrestling with this issue at the moment, as I've absolutely zero wish of any harm (save my lack of business) come to the owner. My goal would be education, and that of a supportive nature, not vitriolic. My best perception at this point and time is that he's merely (perhaps grossly) mis-informed.

    Thus, education has been, and remains my goal.

    HOWEVER, I have already attempted two avenues of education, the first being simply OCing in their stores, and the second, in response to one of his employees telling me I wasn't allowed to carry) being an informational packet hand-delivered to the asst mgr of the store, who later reported he'd delivered the same to the owner, and the owner's response.

    The owner's response, delivered through the asst mgr, was the second time I've been told "do not carry firearms into our store," albeit with the reprieve from time one to time two, reassurances from the asst mgr that such was NOT their policy. He later apologized for being wrong.

    Thus, I firmly believe the assistant manager of the store on Briargate, a couple of blocks up from the Circle K and the intersection of Academy and Briargate, is acting in good faith!

    Given the manager(s)/owner(s) responses as delivered through their asst manager, however, I've come to believe two things:

    1. The owners(s) and or the manager(s) are ignorant of both Federal and Colorado State Law.

    I base this primarily on the message relayed to me by their assistant manager wherein he relayed a comment by "the owner" that "guns are not allowed in any establishment which serves alcohol, nor in..." (and I do not recall the other three establishments he mentioned at the time).

    2. The asst manage was the messenger, not the instigator. He's a nice person, normally very helpful, tall (6'2"), dirty blond, so if you see him, treat him well, as I think he's sympathetic to our cause. He's just employed by a royal and quite ignorant (of the state and federal laws) jerk. Not the asst mgr's fault. Just the owner's fault.

    So please - go easy!

    If you haven't guessed by now from my posts, I'm a very reasonable person, and would prefer restraint than action. Many of you out there are probably familiar with the degree of effort and detail I put into my posts. I took the same care when I generated a response to the owner's initial "no firearms" response.

    Let me know what you all think, whether you agree or disagree, what responses you propose, etc.

    I would send you to RMGO's site with a link, but I've been trying to post such on their site with respect to this incident but without success for 6 weeks.

    Thus, I think their process is broken. Perhaps a state-specific solution is long overdue here on OC.org.

    And John (if you're listening), such would be easy. I could set up the subsections in less than 2 hrs, entitled "Stores which restrict OC," and make them active in all fifty states' sections.

    Moderation would fall to the state-specific moderators. John, you do have state-specific moderators, do you not? If not, please PM me off-line.

    - since9
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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