Let's also recognize that Police Officers do good

I always keep one thing in mind

LEO = Person, Person = ME, LEO =/= Me

I never forget they are people, as I am. Their power over me is as much as I give them. If they go outside of that, then the power swings in my favor. That being said, I've been lucky enough to have positive encounters only so far. I wish luck to the rest as well, and to you also. (Not pointed at anyone specifically)

Goose said:

LEO = Person, Person = ME, LEO =/= Me

I never forget they are people, as I am. Their power over me is as much as I give them. If they go outside of that, then the power swings in my favor. That being said, I've been lucky enough to have positive encounters only so far. I wish luck to the rest as well, and to you also. (Not pointed at anyone specifically)

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I guess we share similar luck. In 46+ years of carrying a handgun I have also been lucky that all my encounters with Law Enforcement have been uneventful. The only times I have been asked for ID was during a couple of stops for speed (my fault) and a couple of accidents (not my fault). I have NEVER been disarmed or subjected to intimidation. I learned a long time ago about something that might be described as "attitude matching". Start with a bad one and the other party will soon try to outdo it. Stay calm, be polite yet firm in your position, and things rarely get out of hand. At least that's been my experience. Then again, maybe I'm going about it all wrong.

Citizen said:

Oh, my. Lets wait a while before we get going on the subject again. What say we just let it go with one little clarification. Not particularly pro-cop, nor anti-cop.

There is a difference between risking one's life for another, and giving one's life for another.

Except for loved ones and soldiers (jumping on grenades, etc.) I can't recall the last time I heard of anyone giving their life for another. To come back after the fact and say a giving occurred, when actually a risking-that-resulted-in-dying occurred, is to change things a little bit.

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That is true there is a difference between risking and giving. I personally don't know anyone who has willingly given his life for anything. Personally I have risked mine to save others and I am not employed as a public servant. That is just my personality and me. I do appreciate the clarification though.

sudden valley gunner said:

Not only Police do this.

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No ****. This thread was about them though.

joeroket said:

No ****. This thread was about them though.

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I stand corrected. And yes some do risk their lives in service of others.

I just get a little discouraged when I hear about what a dangerous job it is when there are many other professions much more dangerous. And many situations where the average Joe risks their lives and they don't do it as part of their job.

I don't fault LEO (well in most respects) I fault the people who don't take our laws and our constitutional personally and want to rely on 'others' for personal safety and law enforcement and allow the bureaucratic beast to grow and grow.

sudden valley gunner said:

I stand corrected. And yes some do risk their lives in service of others.

I just get a little discouraged when I hear about what a dangerous job it is when there are many other professions much more dangerous. And many situations where the average Joe risks their lives and they don't do it as part of their job.

I don't fault LEO (well in most respects) I fault the people who don't take our laws and our constitutional personally and want to rely on 'others' for personal safety and law enforcement and allow the bureaucratic beast to grow and grow.

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I agree with you totally. I get irritated also when people talk about how dangerous the job is. People only say that because the cops are chasing criminals, key work being chasing. Most criminals will attempt to flee rather than stand and fight because they know in the end they will lose. 95% of the LEO I know, which numbers in the hundreds, do it truly because they want to help others and to try and make a difference in society, the other 5% do it for the rush or they are on a power trip. Most LEO, as people have said simply risk their well being, but I know of 2 for sure that gave their lives for the protection of another person and I am sure their are more across the nation.

I also fault others for not taking responsibility to ensure their own safety and that of their families. If more people would do this then we would not require as much police presence as we have and the ones we do have could do proactive policing and detecting of crime.

I suspect we think similar we just express it differently.

joeroket said:

95% of the LEO I know, which numbers in the hundreds, do it truly because they want to help others and to try and make a difference in society, the other 5% do it for the rush...

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Some of the first 95% also enjoy the rush a wee bit.

joeroket said:

I suspect we think similar we just express it differently.

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I suspect the same :lol:.

I think too it is City Police who are the bane of most peoples ire. I noticed Troopers and Sheriff departments tend to have better hiring practices.

I walk by a city cop he glares at me and decides to send me a ticket by summons, and smirks on the phone about how my gun is what gets me in trouble. (not to mention the whole thing was a clerical error, and I am skeptical about it being an error now too) I F'd up though next officer that calls me is going to get hung up on. I hope it's not important.

Just yesterday I walk out of Starbucks and two troopers are walking in, I joke about it must be coffee time, they smile and joke back. Like we are equals and fellow citizens. No hate, no suspicion, no calling me in as a "suspicious" character.

There are bad apples in all groups of people. The bad apples need to be held to account, but the good guys who turn a blind eye to the bad apples need to be held to account too. While this is true for any group, as stated, the reason it is MOST IMPERATIVE for police to not ignore their duty to root out bad apples is that they have the badge, color of authority, and state powers which, when abused, easily cost people their liberties and, sometimes, their lives.

DanM said:

it is MOST IMPERATIVE for police to not ignore their duty to root out bad apples is that they have the badge, color of authority, and state powers which, when abused, easily cost people their liberties and, sometimes, their lives.

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Do you think their Union would stand still for an "Honor Code" such as the Military Academy's have? Where they could be fired for failing to report violations?

maclean said:

Some of the first 95% also enjoy the rush a wee bit.

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Well true, but I suspect you did not enter the profession because of the rush. I believe you entered it to make a difference and help the community. I know my dad loved nothing more than chasing down the guy who runs and loved the rush of responding to the sometimes unknown, but he entered because he had a deep compassion for others and knew he could help make a difference in peoples lives.

sudden valley gunner said:

I suspect the same :lol:.

I think too it is City Police who are the bane of most peoples ire. I noticed Troopers and Sheriff departments tend to have better hiring practices.

I walk by a city cop he glares at me and decides to send me a ticket by summons, and smirks on the phone about how my gun is what gets me in trouble. (not to mention the whole thing was a clerical error, and I am skeptical about it being an error now too) I F'd up though next officer that calls me is going to get hung up on. I hope it's not important.

Just yesterday I walk out of Starbucks and two troopers are walking in, I joke about it must be coffee time, they smile and joke back. Like we are equals and fellow citizens. No hate, no suspicion, no calling me in as a "suspicious" character.

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I have to agree with you on your outlook of the the government type that the officer works for. I have had family in each and have noticed the same thing both being inside and outside the "family".

Troopers are by far the most professional and non-confrontational officers there are, WSP is probably one of the best and most professional in the nation. This stems from the level of accountability that the WSP Chiefs hold their troopers to. The level of accountability seems to dissipate as you go from State to County to City, which is very unfortunate, however some cities rate much better than others.

Has anyone EVER heard about Fish & Wildlife Officers having a problem with people open carrying?? I haven't.

I think this is based on the nature of their job and the interactions they have with so many individuals that carry weapons when hunting, fishing or recreating outdoors. The encounters I have had have always been cordial and feel the interview they are conducting (and make no mistake it is an interview) is friendly with them making sure you are obeying the rules of whatever it is your doing all while sizing up your body language and demeanor. Other LEO organizations would do well to follow similar practices.

They have the same LEO authority as State troopers, but also seem to have greater power of search and seizure depending on circumstances. Again, I think this just the nature of the job they do. Can't really wait for a warrant or drug sniffing dog when out in the middle of nowhere. So if you are hunting or fishing they have the right to search your vehicle, person, pack for any animals/fish you have to make sure you are legal. Anything else they find (meth, pot, etc...) is just the nature of their job.

I know Aaron1124 is looking to become law enforcement and while he likes and respects the WSP he doesn't want to write traffic tickets all day (completely understand that!). I say take a look at WDFW Enforcement. http://wdfw.wa.gov/enforcement/careers/

Anyone ever had a F&W Officer come up and ask them for ID just because they were open carrying? I haven't.

joeroket said:

The level of accountability seems to dissipate as you go from State to County to City, which is very unfortunate, however some cities rate much better than others.

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IMO it also varies from county to county. Pierce seems to be the worst, King seems to be better than most, Kitsap is pretty good now as opposed to several years ago.

TheJeepster said:

They have the same LEO authority as State troopers, but also seem to have greater power of search and seizure depending on circumstances.

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Fish and Wildlife Officers are peace officers who attend the Basic Law Enforcement Academy and have the same authority as Sheriff's Deputies and Police Officers. In as much, they actually exercise more authority than State Troopers.

77.15.075.

Their inspection authority is granted under 77.15.080.

maclean said:

Fish and Wildlife Officers are peace officers who attend the Basic Law Enforcement Academy and have the same authority as Sheriff's Deputies and Police Officers. In as much, they actually exercise more authority than State Troopers.

77.15.075.

Their inspection authority is granted under 77.15.080.

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So, as a fellow LEO, what is your opinion on the F&W Enforcement origaniztion as a whole.? Better trained in personal interactions with the public or about the same?

TheJeepster said:

So, as a fellow LEO, what is your opinion on the F&W Enforcement origaniztion as a whole.? Better trained in personal interactions with the public or about the same?

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They attend the same training everyone else does, excepting the Troopers. The two I know are great people who are really motivated about what they do.

I have no basis for commenting on "better" or "about the same" but if I had to flat out guess, the fact that they talk to armed people all day every day and don't generally go looking for the same kind of crime changes their approach.

One needs to acknowledge that there are those on here that have more then their share of bad contacts with law enforcement while the vast majority have one or two or the majority have none, nada, zip, and one must wonder why that is as they carry openly as well.

Again this comes back to our demeanor.
If someone goes looking for a conflict or fight, it is naturally to conclude they will find one sooner then later and then come back and toot their own horn of how the showed the man.

While their are a few in Law Enforcement there are also a few in the Open Carry Movement that seek conflict and those that go far beyond what the law provides for and need to be dealt with case by case and not to group either side into a one in all in attitude.

When dealing with either group respect should be offered but if it is not does not justify over reaction on either side.

So be knowledgeable, confident and respectful when encountering our law enforcement.

maclean said:

They attend the same training everyone else does, excepting the Troopers. The two I know are great people who are really motivated about what they do.

I have no basis for commenting on "better" or "about the same" but if I had to flat out guess, the fact that they talk to armed people all day every day and don't generally go looking for the same kind of crime changes their approach.

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That's pretty much my opinion too. Can you elaborate on what you mean by "don't generally go looking for the same kind of crime".

TheJeepster said:

That's pretty much my opinion too. Can you elaborate on what you mean by "don't generally go looking for the same kind of crime".

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Mission focus is different.

DFW cops are looking for a certain subset of criminal activity. They certainly run across all kinds, but they get paid to look for hunting and fishing violations.

City police can enforce game violations too, but they don't spend a lot of time looking for them.

Troopers can arrest for a shoplift, but they don't hang out in a grocery store and most of the time will end up calling in the city or county to handle 9A stuff on this side of the mountains, anyhow.

Also, and this may be a bit of bias on my part, but I would like to think fellow hunters are a slice of the population that doesn't go out of it's way to commit crimes. I'm guessing the bad ones they deal with are thieves/poachers.