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Thread: Interactive School Zone Map

  1. #1
    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Interactive School Zone Map

    Hey Folks,
    We just posted a brand new OC feature: Interactive School Zone Map

    http://www.southbayopencarry.org/maps/

    I'm happy to share the base KML file with people that want to make additions.
    It'd be great to have a state wide page like this until the school zone law is overturned.

    Please email me if you'd like the base file to help make additions: email@southbayopencarry.org

    I'm not looking for it to be complete or authoritative but a good first look for people planning events our routes.

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    PM and email sent
    Last edited by chewy352; 10-10-2010 at 06:02 AM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Funtimes's Avatar
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    Is it easy to update? I could do portion of anaheim lol -- since im going there soon. Would be a good idea to figure out the GFSZ
    Last edited by Funtimes; 10-11-2010 at 11:21 PM.

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Instead of creating a school zone map, which can be used against open carriers as proof that they reasonably knew that there was a school within 1000 feet, why couldnt you make a map that depicts the areas in California where it is legal to carry loaded and exposed?

    Mike had made a request of such a map some time ago...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    Instead of creating a school zone map, which can be used against open carriers as proof that they reasonably knew that there was a school within 1000 feet, why couldnt you make a map that depicts the areas in California where it is legal to carry loaded and exposed?

    Mike had made a request of such a map some time ago...
    Because Thesues already proved that not knowing is not a defense so we might as well know and not enter VDZs.

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    I concur.

    Quote Originally Posted by chewy352 View Post
    Because Thesues already proved that not knowing is not a defense so we might as well know and not enter VDZs.
    Chewy352,

    I agree, it is better to know.

    markm

  7. #7
    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    Instead of creating a school zone map, which can be used against open carriers as proof that they reasonably knew that there was a school within 1000 feet, why couldnt you make a map that depicts the areas in California where it is legal to carry loaded and exposed?

    Mike had made a request of such a map some time ago...
    And because no one is being PAID to make these maps so you get what the volunteer is willing to make.

  8. #8
    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funtimes View Post
    Is it easy to update? I could do portion of anaheim lol -- since im going there soon.
    I'm asking the gentleman who made the original file to post a write up on how others can add to it...

    Will post here when I get that from him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkBofRAdvocate View Post
    Chewy352,

    I agree, it is better to know.

    markm
    I disagree.

    The Theseus case was a BS case. If the means are readily available to know where a school is, then a defense (as stated by the law) goes out the window.

    You can be arrested, tried and convicted of any crime - even if you're innocent (e.g. research into death penalty cases). You do not have to make it easy for them to do so.

    "I see you had this iPhone app which beeped whenever you were 1000' of a school" - how do you think that'll go versus someone who didn't have any idea (e.g. out of towner)?

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    It will look good to the jury, IMHO.

    It will look like someone has tried to be inside the law to the best of their knowledge. While there might be some schools not listed on the net anywhere, How are we to know they are there?

  11. #11
    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Thank you for forcing all of us to reasonably know where all the school zones are on that map.

    /sarcasm

  12. #12
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    There is case law out there that not knowing you're in a school zone, or on private/public property is no defense. I would say it's best to know where you are.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bad_ace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gundude View Post
    There is case law out there that not knowing you're in a school zone, or on private/public property is no defense. I would say it's best to know where you are.
    Can you point me to this case law? (it's the OCDO way )

  14. #14
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad_ace View Post
    Can you point me to this case law? (it's the OCDO way )
    I guess it's not exactly case law, but the Theseus case tells me I want to know where all the schools are. Right or wrong, I don't want to have a jury decide it for me.
    Last edited by Gundude; 10-11-2010 at 03:44 AM.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    Regular Member Funtimes's Avatar
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    I think I would have a better chance in front of twelve saying, "Look.. I mapped out these sixty-four other schools, and their associated school zones.. but this one, ' I'm gonna screw you elementary', was not listed anywhere I could find. I did not know it existed or was even a k-12 school."

    Would go over pretty well, maybe not in circuit -- but at least in appeals I feel it would free it up.

    Now if Im trotting along and have my map, which I really wouldn't carry on me, and I'm standing in one of those bad circles of children death, then I deserve to be punished accordingly.

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    The law already has the exception for you to "reasonably" know where a school is. If you reasonably can not know, then a jury should not convict you unless the prosecution has "beyond a reasonable doubt" has the jury convinced you should have "reasonably" known (e.g. big bright "school crossing signs")

    If the prosecution can convince past the "reasonable" exception of the law, then ignorance due to software can be equally (or moreso) argued against; even if you made a "half hearted attempt" (prosecutions words) to comply shows you should know the law AND you didn't put forth the due diligence required to comply.

    E.g. It's reasonable for a person to do a complete and full job which would include the mapping of ALL the schools in the area IF one or more of the schools have been mapped (or your reliance upon those schools is demonstratable).

    E.g. A reasonable person would know if there are schools in the area, according to the mapping software, then maps and software and data sources do get out dated, hence you should have done more due diligence in order to ascertain where all these schools are.

    No, I'm not opposed to knowing where the schools are, in an attempt to ward off a confrontation with the police. I am opposed to showing that you made an effort to comply with the law when that effort may be used against you and the language of the statute is a much better defense.

    However, I'm willing to be wrong. Can someone show me some case where the defendant was "trying to comply with the law" and got off because of it?

    PS. I drive to California along Pioneer Trail in South Lake Tahoe. There's an elementary school along the side and by basica eyeballing it, I can "reasonably" be expected to know there's a school there. Howver, anything past or off the trail - I don't expect (or try) to know. If the prosecution wanted to try and make a case that I "should" have known of schools closer to the lake - that's their case to try and make. I won't help them by having a map of the area nor 8/10 of the schools mapped out. Hell, it could get scary if you have rifles and circles around schools as they'd call you out as a lunatic threat to the children and you should be locked up.
    Last edited by merle; 10-11-2010 at 12:33 PM.

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    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gundude View Post
    I guess it's not exactly case law, but the Theseus case tells me I want to know where all the schools are. Right or wrong, I don't want to have a jury decide it for me.
    The jury didn't get to decide in Theseus' case. It was decided by the judge that the exception didn't apply and was never presented to the jury.

    edit to add: BTW I'm perfectly willing to battle over having reasonably known or not known about a school if for some reason I get arrested as a result. Though in my case it will be more of a battle with regard to being exempt under 626.9(l) as a 12050 license holder. I don't lock up in GFSZs.

    Theseus would clearly have won on appeal - but the funds were not available for him to get a solid apellate decision.
    Last edited by mjones; 10-11-2010 at 02:02 PM.

  18. #18
    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjones View Post
    The jury didn't get to decide in Theseus' case. It was decided by the judge that the exception didn't apply and was never presented to the jury.
    So far we have no presented evidence of someone successfully defending themselves in a 626.9 charge with lack of "reasonable knowledge" of a school zone.

    While it does say that is an exemption it also says private property and businesses are exempt, but that did not work for Theseus.

    I don't know about judges outside of LA county but the best way to defend yourself in LA county is to never step into the court room by taking every precaution to AVOID violating any of their laws.

    I'll take a map and best effort of avoiding school zones any day over burring my head in the sand and hoping.

    Look what 'hope' and got us...

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    Its sad that the Bill of Rights, is being so violated as to have citizens, having to prove their Innocents
    as far as GFSZ's go. A well Informed Jury could change that "626.9 unconstitutional law".
    The power is really in the hands of the people, so Education is really needed.
    "A fully Informed jury".

    We live under the "Rule" of oath breakers, and are being Inslaved by unconstitutional laws at the whim of
    corrupt leaders, for personal gains.

    Yes it is good to know where the school zones are, carrying a map I don't do.
    You must remember where your at, and your route. Carry On !

    Robin47

  20. #20
    Regular Member Funtimes's Avatar
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    I wonder if that guy will be able to appeal anything. Kind of sucks if he doesn't get a jury trial.

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