Man Facing Charges For Drawing Weapon On Attacker

BigDave · Oct 11, 2010

mik253 said:
Haha! THe fingers are really painful but as real as that looks seems kinda strange he would just go unconscious, hope I don't have to make a video.... haha

I think there is some over acting in that video but I could not help LMAO and just had to post it.

BigDave · Oct 11, 2010

Concerning this incident I am speaking as if it was here in Washington.
There are different levels of use of force I am sure we all agree upon but it is at what point it crosses into deadly force and one being able to articulate the facts that support a conclusion.
Many use the Ability Opportunity and Jeopardy and in Washington as stated before as see in the eyes of a reasonable man doctrine and necessary force holding an imminent fear of life or limb.

The story offered had no supporting information other then just there was physical altercation that did not arise to the level of deadly force.

Aaron1124 · Oct 11, 2010

mik253 said:
I don't trust tasers so much, Ive owned 3 and I tazered myself with it many times to get to know the feeling, not that I expected to be tazed but to know the feeling well! Yes its uncomfortable and painful in certain places and will prolly make someone stop what there doing but you have to be in such a close proximity to someone to use it I don't trust it, some huge drunk Guy comes barreling at you a tazer isn't going to stop that momentum, now the tazer guns I would trust cuz the distance they can shoot and those stop just about everyone in there tracks cuz there much more powerful then the handheld ones but I don't see that being very legal or practical or am I wrong? I will say that the sound of a tazer alone is usually pretty effective at stopping someone in there tracks

You were stun gunned. A stun gun is entirely different than a taser. A stun gun relies on contact pain to defend from an attack, where as a taser interrupts your brain-muscular system connection, and renders an attacker unable to move. Of everyone who has volunteered to be tased, there has only been one case of a person successfully fighting through a taser, and it was a Navy SEAL who had specifically trained to withstand it, and fight it off. Tasers are legal in Washington State, and most other states. As far as I know, only the city of Bellingham bans them.

Aaron1124 · Oct 12, 2010

More information on the TASER

All TASER ECD products produce neuromuscular incapacitation when used properly. This basically means the communication between the brain and the muscles is interrupted during the TASER exposure. TASER ECD do not rely on pain compliance, it does not matter if the subject is on drugs, drunk, or has a strong pain threshold. Also, all TASER models use compressed nitrogen to fire the two probes, all current models have a LASER sight. Also, all can be used as a stun gun in case of multiple attackers or a miss. In this regard, all TASERS are alike. Key differences are: Law enforcement products have a far greater range. Consumer models (C2, X26C, M26C) are limited to a range of 15’. Also the law enforcement models have firing logs which can be downloaded showing exposure duration times, voltage, and temperature.

cougfan · Oct 13, 2010

It seems like a lot of people are being arrested and charged with displaying a firearm to deescalate a situation where and assault is taking place (guy in Kirkland brought up on charges). Yes displaying a gun just to be a jerk is a crime but the police seem to always arrest the guy who brought out his gun to avoid an assault or further assault and then he faces arrest, legal fees and loss of firearm. As sad as it is, it seems like you would just be better off shooting a lot of the time. How much injury must one take before it is legal to brandish a gun? I have to believe that if I have been able to present my firearm with enough distance to not be immediately killed I would feel obligated to give a guy punching me or coming at me a chance to back away and live. But then I have committed a crime that overzealous anti-gun prosecutors don't seem to distinguish from gang-bangers flashing guns on the street.

BigDave · Oct 13, 2010

cougfan said:
It seems like a lot of people are being arrested and charged with displaying a firearm to deescalate a situation where and assault is taking place (guy in Kirkland brought up on charges). Yes displaying a gun just to be a jerk is a crime but the police seem to always arrest the guy who brought out his gun to avoid an assault or further assault and then he faces arrest, legal fees and loss of firearm. As sad as it is, it seems like you would just be better off shooting a lot of the time. How much injury must one take before it is legal to brandish a gun? I have to believe that if I have been able to present my firearm with enough distance to not be immediately killed I would feel obligated to give a guy punching me or coming at me a chance to back away and live. But then I have committed a crime that overzealous anti-gun prosecutors don't seem to distinguish from gang-bangers flashing guns on the street.

It is all about the facts that brought you to draw the firearm and an attorney that is knowledgeable enough in self defense and firearms laws and not just want to plea it out.

The lawful display of a firearm to defend yourself will need to meet the same standards of basically a Deadly Threat, it will have to be imminent threat of life or limb.
As the force used is not more the necessary and as seen through the eyes of a reasonably prudent person would.

Another way to look at it, if you were in fear of your life and between the time of employing your weapon the perpetrator had a change of opinion and stopped the threat.

I just want to emphasize the issue of you may well be judged by your peers and it is how they see it not as you or I at the point of a trial, make sure you and your attorney can make these points of self defense.

RCW 9.41.270
Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm — Unlawful carrying or handling — Penalty — Exceptions.

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

(2) Any person violating the provisions of subsection (1) above shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor. If any person is convicted of a violation of subsection (1) of this section, the person shall lose his or her concealed pistol license, if any. The court shall send notice of the revocation to the department of licensing, and the city, town, or county which issued the license.

(3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to or affect the following:

(c) Any person acting for the purpose of protecting himself or herself against the use of presently threatened unlawful force by another, or for the purpose of protecting another against the use of such unlawful force by a third person;

Part IV. Defenses
WPIC CHAPTER 17. Lawful Force—Charges Other Than Homicide

WPIC 17.02 Lawful Force—Defense of Self, Others, Property

It is a defense to a charge of __________ that the force [used][attempted][offered to be used] was lawful as defined in this instruction.
[The [use of][attempt to use][offer to use] force upon or toward the person of another is lawful when [used][attempted][offered] [by a person who reasonably believes that [he][she] is about to be injured] [by someone lawfully aiding a person who [he][she] reasonably believes is about to be injured] in preventing or attempting to prevent an offense against the person, and when the force is not more than is necessary.
[The [use of][attempt to use][offer to use] force upon or toward the person of another is lawful when [used][attempted][offered] in preventing or attempting to prevent a malicious trespass or other malicious interference with real or personal property lawfully in that person's possession, and when the force is not more than is necessary.]
The person [using][or][offering to use] the force may employ such force and means as a reasonably prudent person would use under the same or similar conditions as they appeared to the person, taking into consideration all of the facts and circumstances known to the person at the time of [and prior to] the incident.
The [State][City][County] has the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the force [used][attempted][offered to be used] by the defendant was not lawful. If you find that the [State][City][County] has not proved the absence of this defense beyond a reasonable doubt, it will be your duty to return a verdict of not guilty [as to this charge].

cougfan · Oct 13, 2010

Hey thanks for the legal background on these charges. It sure does seem like the prosecutors are very harsh for what most of us on this forum would believe is a reasonable reaction to assault or in the case of the Kirkland guy having 2 guys threatening him while coming at him after just beating another man. Hopefully a jury sides with these guys, it sure would be nice if police and prosecutors did though. I know they are just doing their jobs, but if a guy is threatening me and I threaten him back with a firearm and we part ways, it seems like that would be a no harm done situation. I figure the aggressive type who pick fights and are about to beat up a gun carrier, then get presented with a gun in their face and back down smartly are too chickenshit to tell the cops the truth.

Man Facing Charges For Drawing Weapon On Attacker

BigDave

Opt-Out Members

BigDave

Opt-Out Members

Aaron1124

Regular Member

Aaron1124

Regular Member

cougfan

Regular Member

BigDave

Opt-Out Members

cougfan

Regular Member