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The 1911 - A Fatal Flaw

Justincase

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2010
Messages
19
Location
WI
While looking for a review on the Remington 1911 R1 pistol I found this video. OK. I KNOW about the pin but I have NEVER heard of the pin actually being pushed in during shooting rendering the gun useless. Anyone have any experience with this "design flaw"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-WhOCoQfjw&feature=player_embedded

That is a grip I have never seen taught, and common sense would dictate it would not be a strong practice.

Laying your trigger finger along the slide can help with point shooting, but you should move it immediately to the trigger upon sight acquisition, and after the safety is moved (edit, safety).
 
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protias

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
7,308
Location
SE, WI
A lot of your pressure is done with the middle two fingers, why would someone use a grip like that? :confused:
 

davegran

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
1,563
Location
Cassville Area -Twelve Miles From Anything, Wiscon
While looking for a review on the Remington 1911 R1 pistol I found this video. OK. I KNOW about the pin but I have NEVER heard of the pin actually being pushed in during shooting rendering the gun useless. Anyone have any experience with this "design flaw"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-WhOCoQfjw&feature=player_embedded

This just goes to show that even as fine a weapon as the 1911 is, that it's not idiot proof.... If this really concerns you, the pin can be shortened until it is flush with the slide and then the hole countersunk enough to allow you to push the pin when field stripping.
 

Shotgun

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
2,668
Location
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
That method of point shooting using the middle finger as the trigger finger is technique that has been around from quite a few years. It has become known as the "Vermont Technique" or sometimes "aimed point shooting." It has its proponents but certainly its detractors also. It can work, of course, but it is not without some serious drawbacks. I really wouldn't recommend it for anyone who has a functional index finger.

Interesting that the video at one point shows a Glock, which wouldn't have the vulnerability described in the video, and targets reportedly shot with non-1911 models. Must have been using up some stock photos as filler.
 

phred

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
768
Location
North Central Wisconsin, ,
The "fatal flaw" is gripping the gun with two fingers instead of three wrapped around the grip. Gripping the gun properly negates any problem. And besides, the 1911 points so naturally (for me), that I don't need to use my index finger to help me "find" the target.
 
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Shotgun

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
2,668
Location
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
The "fatal flaw" is gripping the gun with two fingers instead of three wrapped around the grip. Gripping the gun properly negates any problem. And besides, the 1911 points so naturally (for me), that I don't need to use my index finger to help me "find" the target.

You are absolutely correct. I think the technique overlooks the fact that one does not need to extend one's index finger to "point" with it. It is just as easy and effective to "point" with an index finger that is bent as if on a trigger. You're simply not pointing with the fingertip as the reference. With proper ergonomics, and a certain amount of muscle memory, the gun becomes an extension of your arm and hand and becomes "the finger."

What also worries me about that technique is that point shooting most is useful when the target is quite close, and that is no time to have a weaker style of grip on the firearm. It would be easier to disarm someone who uses that grip and to break one or two of their fingers in the process.
 
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hardballer

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
925
Location
West Coast of Wisconsin
That grip is just plain ridicules and I have never seen anyone use it. Watch this Todd Jarrett video for the correct grip of a semi-auto pistol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48

This just goes to show that even as fine a weapon as the 1911 is, that it's not idiot proof.... If this really concerns you, the pin can be shortened until it is flush with the slide and then the hole countersunk enough to allow you to push the pin when field stripping.

The "fatal flaw" is gripping the gun with two fingers instead of three wrapped around the grip. Gripping the gun properly negates any problem. And besides, the 1911 points so naturally (for me), that I don't need to use my index finger to help me "find" the target.

What an incredible crock of _ _ _ _ ! I have exclusively owned and shot 1911s for around 20 years and have never had such a thing even think of happening. That grip is fatal. Please do not pay any attention to this video.
 

Captain Nemo

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,029
Location
Somewhere, Wisconsin, USA
The style of shooting shown was somewhat popular in the seventies. I found that it was useless for me beyond 5 or 6 yards. My index finger tended to "crook" as I pulled the trigger with the middle finger. Contrary to what the guy in the video implies my accuracy was bad beyond the range at which I could just as well used the gun as a club. Shotgun is correct. A better way is practise, practise, practise with a conventional grip until you attain good "muscle memory". They is no short cut to accuracy. Nothing will make a person an instant Ed Topperwain. Also the video showed the technique being used on a revolver. I wonder what the end of his index finger looks like after all the lead shavings and powder flashes. Not to mention the effect it may have on cylinder timing.
 

Spartacus

Banned
Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Messages
1,185
Location
La Crosse, Wisconsin, USA
1911's are beautiful things but they need tweaking and tinkering from time to time. The firing pin block dropped on my Para 45-14 so I bought an oversized firing pin block from EGW for 10 bucks that will take care of the problem.
 

rcawdor57

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
1,643
Location
Wisconsin, USA
Thanks for the input guys!

I found that strange video in a 1911 shooter's forum as a recent post. I found it strange too but since I have not fired a 1911 since 1982 I decided to "Ask the experts" A.K.A. OCDO members.

I won't follow that video's advice that is for sure. Thanks again everyone!
 
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