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Here is Why you Carry a 10mm While In the Woods...

The Expert

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
118
Location
Taylor, Michigan, USA
Saw this story today and it just confirmed to me that a 10mm handgun while in the woods should be considered standard equipment.

Three bear cubs and a momma decided to attack a hunter while in a tree stand. I'm guessing he was bow hunting and the thought of trying to shoot a bear off of a tree that you are perched in with a bow (or even a long gun) seems to be very difficult indeed.

Pistol, not so much.

That being the case, I have no clue what the regs are for carrying a gun while in the woods. Can someone give me the basics or link to a thread that already has the details on that?

Here's the link to the original article: Michigan Man Who Smelled Like Chicken Mauled by Bear While Hunting
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
Saw this story today and it just confirmed to me that a 10mm handgun while in the woods should be considered standard equipment.

Three bear cubs and a momma decided to attack a hunter while in a tree stand. I'm guessing he was bow hunting and the thought of trying to shoot a bear off of a tree that you are perched in with a bow (or even a long gun) seems to be very difficult indeed.

Pistol, not so much.

That being the case, I have no clue what the regs are for carrying a gun while in the woods. Can someone give me the basics or link to a thread that already has the details on that?

Here's the link to the original article: Michigan Man Who Smelled Like Chicken Mauled by Bear While Hunting


In Michigan if you have a CPL you can possess a handgun for self-defense as long as you are not trying to take game with it.

This is in the DNRE hunting guide.
 

Outdoorsman

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
273
Location
Genesee County, Michigan, USA
I sent an email to the DNR to confirm this about carrying a pistol while bowhunting:

"Can a person with a Concealed Pistol License (CPL) who is bow-hunting for deer
during the archery season (in camouflage), carry his/her pistol in an openly
exposed holster (open-carry), as long as there is no attempt to hunt game with
the pistol?"

Response (Terry Cook) - 09/01/2009 03:39 PM
As long as there is no attempt to take game and you are in compliance with the
restrictions (if any) of your CPL, a person with a CPL may carry either open or
concealed while bow hunting.

Michigan DNR
Law Enforcement Division
 

WARCHILD

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
1,768
Location
Corunna, Michigan, USA
From DNR website:

Archery Deer Seasons
During the archery deer seasons, it is illegal to carry afield a pistol, revolver or other firearm while bow hunting for deer.
Exceptions: This prohibition does not apply to pistols carried under authority of a concealed pistol license or properly carried under authority of a specific exception from the requirement of a concealed pistol license. However, a concealed pistol license does not authorize the individual to use the pistol to take game except as provided by law.
 

T Vance

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
2,482
Location
Not on this website, USA
Why didn't he use whatever weapon he had in his possesion at the time (that he was using for hunting) to fend off the bears? I'm assuming it would have been a bow...(I don't know, it doesn't say it in the article and I'm not a hunter)
 

The Expert

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
118
Location
Taylor, Michigan, USA
@T Vance - I've never hunted from a tree stand, but I'm guessing they are not really stable...at least not for defending yourself from a bear.

The most popular tree stands are the "climbing" kind which can only fit around a pretty skinny tree. They also provide a terribly small level of mobility when perched in one. You pretty much can sit down, and stand up. Turning, twisting, and manuvering in those things is very dangerous and if you do anything other than sit, or stand and take a straight-line shot, you run the risk of falling out.

So if you had a bow, the idea of standing up, twisting around to take a shot in a straight down and "behind" you orientation is asking to fall out of the stand. Any smart tree stand hunter would be tethered in though so he wouldn't fall to the ground. Instead, he'd become a meat pinata for the bears.

Contrast that with a pistol. You don't stand up at all...instead, you unholster your firearm, lean over so you can get a clean shot at the bears, and pull the trigger.

Trying to defend with a bow is a nightmare...the same goes for a long gun because the maneuverability problem would be the same.
 

PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
@T Vance - I've never hunted from a tree stand, but I'm guessing they are not really stable...at least not for defending yourself from a bear.

The most popular tree stands are the "climbing" kind which can only fit around a pretty skinny tree. They also provide a terribly small level of mobility when perched in one. You pretty much can sit down, and stand up. Turning, twisting, and manuvering in those things is very dangerous and if you do anything other than sit, or stand and take a straight-line shot, you run the risk of falling out.

So if you had a bow, the idea of standing up, twisting around to take a shot in a straight down and "behind" you orientation is asking to fall out of the stand. Any smart tree stand hunter would be tethered in though so he wouldn't fall to the ground. Instead, he'd become a meat pinata for the bears.

Contrast that with a pistol. You don't stand up at all...instead, you unholster your firearm, lean over so you can get a clean shot at the bears, and pull the trigger.

Trying to defend with a bow is a nightmare...the same goes for a long gun because the maneuverability problem would be the same.

From my experience, the climbing tree stands are very stable once they are in place (at least mine is). I have a safety harness on at all times and attached to the tree, so I am covered for falls just fine. Shooting at something directly under that stand with a bow would be an issue even with a safety harness on.

For me, I probably would not want to take a shot with a bow at cubs if I thought I could handle it otherwise. I carry a firearm while bow hunting, so I have alternatives in any event. It is a difficult situation in any event: defend yourself from a cub, mom will be after you; defend yourself from mom, possibly doom the cubs to die. I know I would choose to live and defend myself, but I would do everything I could to ensure using my pistol would be my last line of defense.
 

Michigander

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,818
Location
Mulligan's Valley
About 15 or 18 years ago there was a "liger" on the loose in the Steriling Heights area where my now dead grandpa lived.

10mm is a great choice for 2 legged issues, and an even better choice for most 4 legged issues. I consider it the best round available for all purpose defense.
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
About 15 or 18 years ago there was a "liger" on the loose in the Steriling Heights area where my now dead grandpa lived.

10mm is a great choice for 2 legged issues, and an even better choice for most 4 legged issues. I consider it the best round available for all purpose defense.
I'm calling you a liger on the Liger!
 

Bailenforcer

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
1,077
Location
City
I never enter the woods without a 357 magnum never never never !!!

We have wolves and cougars withing a few hundred yards to a couple miles of my home. Not to mention coyote packs.

The guy who was attacked is a relative of a friend.


From DNR website:

Archery Deer Seasons
During the archery deer seasons, it is illegal to carry afield a pistol, revolver or other firearm while bow hunting for deer.
Exceptions: This prohibition does not apply to pistols carried under authority of a concealed pistol license or properly carried under authority of a specific exception from the requirement of a concealed pistol license. However, a concealed pistol license does not authorize the individual to use the pistol to take game except as provided by law.
 

malignity

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
1,101
Location
Warren, Michigan, USA
Living in Troy, I told my wife once again today she needs to get her CPL because of the cougar. She rolled her eyes at me. Hopefully one day she'll learn without having to get hurt first.

I may not have a 10mm, however I do carry a .40 cal with two spare magazines. 40 rounds total consisting of Pow'r Ball and Federal HST should potentially fall even a bear if I need it to (Granted, if I'm shooting bears though, I'd be wishing I had FMJ)
 

knifemaker

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
21
Location
Petoskey, Michigan, USA
This happened a couple miles from my house. That's why I carry a .44mag.

These same four bears have been spotted several times this summer. Their presence in the area was not a secret. They have been seen several time during daylight hours. It appears they have lost all fear of man.

Unfortunately, the DNRE seems to be blaming this incident on the victim. At the present time there are no plans to do anything to the bears. In other jurisdictions, they would already be rugs...
 

Michigander

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,818
Location
Mulligan's Valley
I may not have a 10mm, however I do carry a .40 cal with two spare magazines. 40 rounds total consisting of Pow'r Ball and Federal HST should potentially fall even a bear if I need it to (Granted, if I'm shooting bears though, I'd be wishing I had FMJ)

For a bear, you'd be wishing you had extra hot JHP ammo in a 10MM. My wet phone book tests showed me that such rounds are capable of making holes nearly the size of a softball. FMJ in .40 short and weak will make a hole scarcely bigger than 4/10 of an inch.

Honestly, the 10mm outclasses .40 in a similar way to 9mm vs .380. If you can handle the grip size of either a stock G20 or a Robar converted G20, and you take self defense seriously, you owe it to yourself to at least consider getting a G20C. You can still shoot .40 with a conversion barrel, and I believe a different spring. If you use a non ported .40 barrel, the recoil even stays about the same for cheap practice shooting.
 
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TheQ

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
Living in Troy, I told my wife once again today she needs to get her CPL because of the cougar.

The only cougar I am aware of in Lansing come out on Thursday and Friday night. They can usually be found at "Rum Runners". I haven't shot any yet, but then again, I haven't been attacked by any.
 
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