133 Days A Year You Could Be A Criminal For OC'ing

GreenCountyPete · Oct 14, 2010

clear lines that if you carry a firearm not legal for hunting as a self defence gun that you can't be charged with hunting with a firearm to short ect..

and one could make the argument that your hunting for unprotected species like coyote, if still out after dark durring deer season with a loaded gun, at least in the southern half of the state.

this is part of why inorder to get charges to hold they get people to shoot robo deer , because it can be argued that untill you shoot at a deer your not hunting for them , walking around with a back tag could be considered deer hunting but since i see kids were thier coats with back tags to school, people doing chores and other things incliding sighting in at thier home range on the farm and they are clearly not hunting , that by itself is not enough to be sure that they are hunting.

but i think your forgetting about bird seasons , any one hunting for water fowl , pheasants or other birds can not have in their possetion a cartrige containing a single projectile even though the 44 in your revolver while your grouse hunting with your shotgun was clearly not intended for the grouse the law does not read that way.

anmut · Oct 14, 2010

oliverclotheshoff said:
that is very true about responsible hunting i have that same circumstance in my family they all shot 6-7 -8 doe a peice ( 8 guys)for the last 3-4 years most of which were only about 100lbs and now they all piss and moan about not seeing any deer when all along my dad and myself have been telling them they need to hunt right and have some kind of size limit to consider shooting it i have just about given up on hunting all together over all the dept of never ending regulations BS and my family of course

Yep - and now we have seasons like this year where I had to sit online and refresh my web browser to buy one of the 375 doe tags available for our zone.

I have no problem with anyone shooting a couple deer and don't believe that size should come into play like it does with fishing (bambies taste great anyway!). But if we as hunters don't act responsible onto our sport then it gives the government just one more reason for more regulations and taxes.

oliverclotheshoff · Oct 14, 2010

anmut i think you misunderstood my unclear words i dont want to see a regulated size to be able to shoot deer i was meaning we should each hold ourselves up to a higher standard and only shoot an adult deer or two not a bunch of yearlings there is some truth to the saying if you kill 1 yearling doe you kill 2 to 3 deer that would of been adult deer in a few years

Flipper · Oct 14, 2010

Doug Huffman said:
CWD, prionic disease, will not likely be eliminated until all 'infected' herds and individuals are eliminated, certainly the communicating populations.

Time to break out the sharpshooters at $400 a pop. (page 25)

http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/wildlife/whealth/issues/cwd/doc/CWD_15plan.pdf

The DNR Madison decision makers consist of bureaucrats that have a college degree in "enviromental science" and spend 8 hours M-F in a cubicle.

Doug Huffman · Oct 14, 2010

Federal employees used to do it.

1965 I was fishing in the BLM Black Canyon of the Gunnison district when the district manager parked above a meadow, laid his scoped rifle on the hood of the Bronco and thinned the herd for the approaching mule train to pack out.

rcav8r · Oct 14, 2010

Could this not also be changed through the conservation congress and the spring hearings, where the people vote on proposed changes in regulations?

Flipper · Oct 14, 2010

rcav8r said:
.......where the people vote on proposed changes in regulations?

The people may want, but the legislature pass the laws and the agencies implement. I would think that resolutions limiting DNR firearm, specifically handgun, regulation authority would be met by wails of "what about poachers and safety." Might be worth a try though, nothing ventured, nothing gained, and it will raise the issue of the DNR regs affecting the right to bear arms for self defense.

johnny amish · Oct 14, 2010

One things for sure, all of us had better be careful while hunting and oc'ing this year. On the other hand maybe a good constitutional challenge would be in order if we have trouble.

Nutczak · Oct 14, 2010

The DNR is not above the Wisconsin State Constitution. I carry a revolver when I am bow hunting for personal protection, and to take small game when in season.
There are no laws or regulations that state you must have a hunting license to be in the woods with a firearm. I carry whenever I am out and about for protection against both 2-legged and 4-legged animals.

johnny amish · Oct 14, 2010

Nutczak said:
The DNR is not above the Wisconsin State Constitution.

If I read page 12 of the regs. under the mentor section, the DNR is telling me basically I have a choice, carry a gun so a 10 or 11 yr. old can hunt or carry a gun for protection, not both.

phred · Oct 14, 2010

johnny amish said:
If I read page 12 of the regs. under the mentor section, the DNR is telling me basically I have a choice, carry a gun so a 10 or 11 yr. old can hunt or carry a gun for protection, not both.

That is just what I posted above that the Head Training Warden told me. Make a choice.

When I turned 21, I bought a Ruger Mark I and carried it whenever I went in the woods. It was only legal to shoot small game then with a 22 rimfire handgun. Then 11 years later, I could and did hunt deer with a center-fire handgun. Then another decade or so went by before I could hunt small game with a center-fire pistol. I made sure I always had at least a small game license on my person whenever I went anyplace and had a handgun with at least a 4" barrel. Kind of a crappy "right to self defense", huh!

When Article 1, Sec 25 was passed by a 79% (to 21%) vote of the PEOPLE, that pretty much opened the door for unlimited open carry, at least for me in the woods, although, it took me another 10 yrs to figure this out. Now, I'm up on things, trying to be actively involved, and carry more than just in the woods. What do you think the ordinary person knows about these issues? Most likely nothing and that's why they won't do anything.

I am not sitting down for this anymore. It's like I, or we, have been told to sit at the "back of the bus" for years when it comes to gun rights. Now, when I go for a walk in the woods, I carry whatever I want unless I am actively hunting. If I am stopped by a warden while out on a walk, if he sees my handgun, if he asks for my hunting license, he won't see it, for I won't be hunting. Just like LE won't see my driver's license if I am not driving. (See what I learned from this forum?)

Most of the general "hunting" public is oblivious to the impact the DNR has made to our freedoms. I kick myself in the butt for being so "docile" in my earlier years, but I just did not know any other way and there was no one to give me a clue. So now everyday I say, I am not docile. and do things I've wanted to do all along.

johnny amish · Oct 15, 2010

phred said:
That is just what I posted above that the Head Training Warden told me. Make a choice.

When I turned 21, I bought a Ruger Mark I and carried it whenever I went in the woods. It was only legal to shoot small game then with a 22 rimfire handgun. Then 11 years later, I could and did hunt deer with a center-fire handgun. Then another decade or so went by before I could hunt small game with a center-fire pistol. I made sure I always had at least a small game license on my person whenever I went anyplace and had a handgun with at least a 4" barrel. Kind of a crappy "right to self defense", huh!

When Article 1, Sec 25 was passed by a 79% (to 21%) vote of the PEOPLE, that pretty much opened the door for unlimited open carry, at least for me in the woods, although, it took me another 10 yrs to figure this out. Now, I'm up on things, trying to be actively involved, and carry more than just in the woods. What do you think the ordinary person knows about these issues? Most likely nothing and that's why they won't do anything.

I am not sitting down for this anymore. It's like I, or we, have been told to sit at the "back of the bus" for years when it comes to gun rights. Now, when I go for a walk in the woods, I carry whatever I want unless I am actively hunting. If I am stopped by a warden while out on a walk, if he sees my handgun, if he asks for my hunting license, he won't see it, for I won't be hunting. Just like LE won't see my driver's license if I am not driving. (See what I learned from this forum?)

Most of the general "hunting" public is oblivious to the impact the DNR has made to our freedoms. I kick myself in the butt for being so "docile" in my earlier years, but I just did not know any other way and there was no one to give me a clue. So now everyday I say, I am not docile. and do things I've wanted to do all along.

Right on, I wish more people realized what happens when good men remain silent. Keep up the good fight.

Fast Ed · Oct 15, 2010

DNR - Damn Near Russia

1. The DNR has very little, if any, oversight. Their regulatory power is basically absolute unless legislation is passed voiding the regs or the court rules the reg unconstitutional. They answer to no one. The board is appointed by the governor as is the DNR head. Appointed bodies with no direct representation of the electorate will always run amok. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

2. There are many DNR regs that conflict with or negate state statutes or the intent of statute or other law. This is a perfect opportunity for our next governor to step in and clean up the mess that Doyle's DNR has wrought. There needs to be a statute passed that does not allow the DNR to pass a reg that conflicts or confuses state law or the protections given us by state and federal constitutions.

I know some DNR wardens that are great people that have their hearts in the right place. I am sure there are those that don't. We need to get all of them on the same page with existing law and not leave it in the hands of the individual warden for personal interpretation.

Fast Ed

johnny amish · Oct 15, 2010

The DNR has way to much reach into our lives. They are hidding in the shadows and some how we tollerate their supressions.

protias · Oct 15, 2010

johnny amish said:
The DNR has way to much reach into our lives. They are hidding in the shadows and some how we tollerate their supressions.

It is like the state owns wild creatures...

Doug Huffman · Oct 15, 2010

protias said:
It is like the state owns wild creatures...

... and real estate (taxes are just 'rent') and money (listen to the Obamanation). The state would be a Sovereign and legislators, HRH Royalty.

Read Angelo Codevilla's The Character of Nations: How Politics Makes and Breaks Prosperity, Family and Civility,

http://www.amazon.com/Character-Nations-Politics-Prosperity-Civility/dp/0465028004

duckdog · Oct 17, 2010

If you really want your 10 yr old to pop a deer, just let them. We need to get rid of all of the funky youth seasons and doe only seasons and get back to the "normal" seasons we had in the past. If a kid really wants to hunt, they'll hunt just as well during the regular season, with the rest of us. But... if they can hunt when it's 70 degrees out, I think the majority of them will not venture out when the temp is 25 degrees during the regular season. They'll opt for the earlier season most of the time. 12 yrs old is pleanty early to be "legally" hunting. Again, if you want them hunting earlier, take 'em with you and just let them shoot.

The DNR definitely needs a good neutering and they need it pronto. Where I live, we do have wolf issues, and there's no arguing about it in my opinion. In the north, there never was an over abundance of deer, but it is definitely noticably less since the wolves have taken hold of the woods. Granted, some yo yos were taking far too many deer and justifying it by "feeding the hungry".

In any case, hopefully we can get some of these crap rules changed to be more in line with the state statutes.

phred · Oct 17, 2010

duckdog said:
If you really want your 10 yr old to pop a deer, just let them. We need to get rid of all of the funky youth seasons and doe only seasons and get back to the "normal" seasons we had in the past. If a kid really wants to hunt, they'll hunt just as well during the regular season, with the rest of us. But... if they can hunt when it's 70 degrees out, I think the majority of them will not venture out when the temp is 25 degrees during the regular season. They'll opt for the earlier season most of the time. 12 yrs old is pleanty early to be "legally" hunting. Again, if you want them hunting earlier, take 'em with you and just let them shoot.

The DNR definitely needs a good neutering and they need it pronto. Where I live, we do have wolf issues, and there's no arguing about it in my opinion. In the north, there never was an over abundance of deer, but it is definitely noticably less since the wolves have taken hold of the woods. Granted, some yo yos were taking far too many deer and justifying it by "feeding the hungry".

In any case, hopefully we can get some of these crap rules changed to be more in line with the state statutes.

Yup!! With these rules, regulations, seasons, etc, it is just the DNR's NEEDS that are being fulfilled - their NEED for power. Certainly it's not service. Have you tried to get into a DNR Service Office lately? The DNR needs to control the people because they can't control the wildlife. Or, maybe it's the DNR controlling the people so the people can control the wildlife. I'm confused. But they still want to control the people.

Nutczak · Oct 17, 2010

I have a friend that asked a warden if he could wear a gun while out in the woods cutting firewood, the warden told him "NO, not unless you are legally hunting during an open season. This was a few years back.
I tasked this warden to show me where in law it states that I cannot carry a firearm if I am not hunting. He got all defensive and said he would arrest me if he ever saw me out there just carrying a gun.
I told him exactly where I would be, and the time I would be there collecting firewood, and that I would have a .357 on my side and welcomed him to come arrest me.
He never showed!
A few short months later I found this website, and it reinforced exactly what I knew was legal, and how most DNR employees do not even know the law that they are tasked to enforce.

Shotgun · Oct 17, 2010

johnny amish said:
If I read this correct I would be a criminal to oc while taking my 10 yr. old hunting.

I would ask that you cite the statute that "criminalizes" this practice. I would think the most that could be imposed is a civil forfeiture. To say one is a criminal implies that one has committed a misdemeanor or felony violation of the law.

133 Days A Year You Could Be A Criminal For OC'ing

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