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Thread: Don't dial 911 for family arguments in Phoenix AZ...

  1. #1
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Don't dial 911 for family arguments in Phoenix AZ...

    I'm not "cop bashing", just citing a disturbing trend, and wondering where it's leading...

    This story speaks for itself...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb9tTDws18o

    Officer Richard Crisman (a 9 year veteran on the force, with a record of excessive force, and disciplinary problems) might consider relocating to Los Vegas and getting a job with LVPD patrolling the parking lot at COSTCO. He seems to have the right demeanor, and people skills...

    I'm starting to see a disturbing trend here...

    For the last few years, police have been summarily executing family dogs during raids, domestic calls, when investigating an alarm trigger, or even when their own dogs are playing with other dogs in an "off leash" dog park because they don't like the howling sound that Siberian Huskies make:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-MxZ...eature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mvIWFXbHNo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dEhlGXq_3Q

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQp-u5XJxrE

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLvvlBf-G8w


    There's an old adage in criminal psychology that serial killers usually start out torturing and killing animals first, then progress to human victims.

    Let's hope this recent trend isn't part of some sort of training continuum in the LE community...

    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    SNIP Let's hope this recent trend isn't part of some sort of training continuum in the LE community...
    Well, of course it is part of some sort of training continuum in the LE community.

    If LE accreditation agencies, police acadamies, and training seminars drew a line in the sand for zero tolerance of 4th and 5th Amendment violations, there would be a huge change practically overnight.

    Who came up with idea of sending SWAT teams for even minor warrants? Who spread the idea?

    Who came up with idea of automatically shooting all dogs during searches? Who spread the idea?

    Who plants the idea that any gun is dangerous? Or, a woodcarver's knife when he is not even facing you? But, then does not teach the other side of the coin for judgement?

    Who teaches the domination doctrine? The "take control" doctrine?

    This stuff all goes hand-in-hand.

    Somebody or somebodies is cleverly figuring out this stuff for the next police policy. Its not like 45 different departments all across the county suddenly all have the same original idea.

    My money is on the acceditation agencies, trainers, consultants for disseminating the info. And, maybe even coming up with some of it.

    Too bad they don't also seem to be teaching judgement, and demanding respect for 4A and 5A rights. They keep up the trend and soon the backlash may be nearly as bad as that against Writs of Assistance. The colonists were bent because of the searches done under the Writs. But, if you read up on it, you find they were also rather bent because of the way the heartless, self-interested thugs executed the searches.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    My money is on the acceditation agencies, trainers, consultants for disseminating the info. And, maybe even coming up with some of it.
    My point exactly, but I'll take it up another level. You are on the right track, but you need to think bigger--MUCH bigger...

    Most accreditation orgs in the US are ACTUALLY branches of INTERNATIONAL police accreditation organizations. And I think we know who those orgs are really answering to--the international banksters...

    The biggest accreditation org in the US is CALEA:

    http://www.calea.org/

    And they were founded by several other orgs-mainly the International Association of Chiefs of Police. CALEA is active in North and Central America, Canada, the UK, and Qatar, but has ties to EU, Chinese, and Russian orgs...

    Look for the blood trail--its easy to follow. The drops are shaped like dollars and cents, pounds and pence...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 10-13-2010 at 09:08 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    I would need to see some examples.

    I know of some of the nastier chapters in Interpol's history. But, none on the accreditation agencies and so forth.

    It makes sense that it could be that way. But, I would need to see more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    I'm not "cop bashing", just citing a disturbing trend, and wondering where it's leading...
    Ok...

    This story speaks for itself...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb9tTDws18o
    Yes, nailing a yellow lab for barking is a bit (as in WAY) over the top, even for the ridiculously over-the-top Oakland police (which is why I did NOT carry during a recent visit to Oakland. I figured I'd take Heinlein's "Tunnel in the Sky" advice and simply go unarmed and very afraid. Lol, statistically speaking, I was in very little danger from the public. Most importantly, however, I was in far less danger from the police, and that's the telling point of this issue.

    As for the rest of your videos, let's simply stipulate that this ridiculously overbearing LEO "procedure" isn't widespread, but remains more prevalent than should be (as in unless a dog is physically attacked an LEO, the dog poses no more threat than a wailing neighbor - do you shoot those? No? Case closed, you trigger-happy morons)

    Furthermore, I'd like a psych eval done on each and every LEO who pulled the trigger on a barking, but not attacking dog. Animal, people, doesn't matter. Sound is not harm. If they're barking, screaming, yelling, whatever, but not causing you physical bodily harm, you do NOT kill them.

    As an outdoor adventurer, that goes for cougar, bear, and wolf, by the way, and I've encountered my fair share of these far more deadly animals than the fun-loving family golden retriever.

    To date, I've NEVER had to kill a wild animal who threatened me. To date, I've encountered 11 bear, 3 cougar (one seen, one unseen, and one who approached to the point of picking food from my camping plate, despite my "haiyahs!" to vamoose. It finally did), and two wolves, both from what appeared to be a mutually respectable distance.

    Well, so much for the predators. I've also dealt with mamma moose commensurate with baby on board at close (16 feet) distance, along with innumerable other wildlife critters (hundreds, if you count the marmosets, chipmunks, squirrels, snakes, gophers...)

    Total killed to date? 2.

    I've killed two water moccasins, back in Florida, around 1971.

    So, pray tell -REALLY! These "police officers" are entering domiciles and drilling the family pets as a means of what? Proving their worth? Saying they "saved the day?" Perhaps achieving one of those "Officer so and so risked his/her life in the line of duty today, laying life and body on the line in the righteous and immediate demise of an exceptionally barking family pet..."

    As much as I hate PETA, this IS one of the very few instances where I wouldn't mind them rising to the occasion of what's good, right, and honorable.

    As for taming a family pet, I've had to do so on numerous occasions (>40), and my uncle did so on literally more than 100 thousand occasions (he was a very highly respected vet). He was bitten a whopping three times.

    I dare say whoever in the PD is inciting fears justifying the putting down of family pets is off their freakin' rocker.

    Furthermore, protocol exists! AND supercedes (another factor overstepped in law by these folks).

    1. Is an animal involved? Call animal control and work in conjunction with them.

    It might not read so sweetly in whatever the lawyers came up with, but DANG! It's the common-sense breakdown of the law.

    Unless suspicion of immediate danger of life is involved.

    Guess what. Said suspicion does not involve either immediate danger of life of the officers from a family pet or others from a family pet. It involves danger of life from an evil perpetrator, who, by definition from SCOTUS involves such two-legged aspects as "malice aforethought."

    Sorry, Phoenix, AZ PD, but I just can't possibly see "malice aforethough" in one's golden retriever.

    Besides - did you not possess tasers? Did you not contact animal control for cooperating efforts?

    Did you not simply press on and dealth with any direct attack (biting, not barking) if/when it happened?

    Did you ever think to employ one of your K-9 team members to help control the dogs?

    I mean, seriously!!! Dammit, folks!

    I love dogs. Over the years I've had 40+ adverse encounters with dogs (as well as two caged wolves) which turned into friendly engagements of commraderie. Seriously - ever play frisbee with a wolf? Your average retriever can make a $10 frisbee last for about 50 throws. With your average wolf, that frisbee is lucky to last 10 throws.

    But, they love it, just the same.

    These officers who did this are grossly wrong-educated. Killing family pets in this manner belays a gross lack of training and cooperating with animal authorities. It's just a gross, and very stupid approach, period bar none. There is no excuse.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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