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question about brandishing - What if only the grip and back edge of the slide show?
- Thread starter Snazuolu
- Start date
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
Well, here is an excerpt from the brandishing statute in VA, 18.2-282:
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. However, this section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-282
I don't see it being brandishing. What do you think?
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. However, this section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-282
I don't see it being brandishing. What do you think?
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ProShooter
Regular Member
not even close
ed
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Me either. We call it the "Virginia Tuck"
Lincoln7
Regular Member
The fact that Virginia is an open carry friendly state is also why that is not brandishing. Other states that allow CC only probably would consider that brandishing.
in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured.
knowing how liberals hate guns, i would say that yea, they would think that anyone who has a gun on them is out to shoot people.
reason i am asking this is because my 1911, the grip at least tends to show sometimes when i wear my IWB. some call it printing, but i got to thinking, well whats the difference between printing and actually tucking your shirt in and just letting the grip show anyway.
knowing how liberals hate guns, i would say that yea, they would think that anyone who has a gun on them is out to shoot people.
reason i am asking this is because my 1911, the grip at least tends to show sometimes when i wear my IWB. some call it printing, but i got to thinking, well whats the difference between printing and actually tucking your shirt in and just letting the grip show anyway.
SouthernBoy
Regular Member
Just because someone has an irrational fear of guns doesn't mean that the fear induced by seeing your gun is reasonable
This.
While someone with this sort of irrational fear may try to argue, or complain to a police officer, that you were putting them in fear, if your actions are such that it is obvious you are doing nothing even approaching this, then their argument is moot.
Would not this fall under what a "reasonable person" would surmise from being in the company of an armed citizen?
Presume that you have your CHP from the way you describe carrying. Virginia's permit does NOT require that the handgun remain hidden/concealed; it only allows you to do so - your choice.
Printing is not a gun peeking out from under a shirt/jacket. It is the outline/shape showing through a garment - the term is normally restricted to states that are hard nosed about keeping it hidden i.e. Florida.
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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vt800c
Regular Member
You just gave us a legal basis...
to explictly state that anti-s are not reasonable people, by definition, irrational, and therefore of questionable capability to do anything without harming others...
Including running a city (Bloomberg) or a country (name withheld to protect the innocent)
to explictly state that anti-s are not reasonable people, by definition, irrational, and therefore of questionable capability to do anything without harming others...
Including running a city (Bloomberg) or a country (name withheld to protect the innocent)
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user
Accomplished Advocate
Correct. Brandishing involves intentional coercion or intimidation.
Reminds me of Arnold's answer to Jamie Lee's question in "True Lies":
"Did you ever kill anyone?"
"Yeah, but dhay were all baad."
ProShooter
Regular Member
Sounds like the perfect HNK defense if I ever heard one!
JoeSparky
Centurion
If your firearm is IN A HOLSTER and you ain't fondling it, IT AIN'T BRANDISHING!!!!!!!!!!!! And even IF your hand is on the butt of the HOLSTERED firearm, IF YOU AIN'T ACTING IN AN AGGRESSIVE OR THREATENING MANNER, YOU AIN'T BRANDISHING!
ProShooter
Regular Member
You don't have to be touching the gun to brandish it.
That's true Jim but it gets harder to prove and the act has to be more overt.
A good example. As you've seen numerous times, I conceal my Taser even when I'm Ocing.
I was in an all Mexican area the other day and needed to try on a jacket. I had the Taser in a shoulder holster.
I took my jacket off and the place got empty fast (I thought I heard the word ICE):lol:
That was NOT brandishing and it would be darned hard to claim it was.
Had I been in an argument over the price of beans and done the same thing, it well could have been argued it was to intimidate. The devil is really in the details.
JoeSparky
Centurion
But that would be acting aggressive and/or threatening WHILE DEMONSTRATING THAT YOU HAD A WEAPON BY DRAWING ATTENTION TO IT IN SOME WAY.... OR FONDLING SAME!
Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
B.S. ! You're an 'instructor'? Here's Websters...
'Definition of BRANDISH
1: to shake or wave (as a weapon) menacingly
2: to exhibit in an ostentatious or aggressive manner
Examples of BRANDISH
She brandished a stick at the dog.
I could see that he was brandishing a knife.'
To brandish indicates that you must have something in hand. A holstered/sheathed weapon is not borne in an ostentatious or aggressive manner (such as slung at the ready).
If only Websters were recognized as law, life would be easier:uhoh:!
user
Accomplished Advocate
Y'all have obviously been practicing law in Virginia a lot longer than I have - gee, I must be mistaken; but I think ProShooter's "dead on", myself. Or else you are confused because the legal term, "brandishing" looks as though it's English. Perhaps you missed my earlier post in this thread in which I explained what I think the crime of "brandishing" is all about.
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JoeSparky
Centurion
Sonora Rebel maybe you and I have a wonderful advantage by living OUT WEST where the definitions and laws are somewhat MORE REALISTIC and less ONEROUS!.... you know, where a holstered firearm (absent other factors) is NOT BRANDISHING!
Wish I had a "face into palm" animated thingy!
Wish I had a "face into palm" animated thingy!