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question about brandishing - What if only the grip and back edge of the slide show?

Sonora Rebel

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Aug 6, 2008
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Gone
Y'all have obviously been practicing law in Virginia a lot longer than I have - gee, I must be mistaken; but I think ProShooter's "dead on", myself. Or else you are confused because the legal term, "brandishing" looks as though it's English. Perhaps you missed my earlier post in this thread in which I explained what I think the crime of "brandishing" is all about.

Maybe you missed that 'hold' part of the VA statute?

Burton's Legal Thesaurus, 4E. Copyright © 2007 by William C. Burton. Used with permission of The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc.

"brandish (verb) dangle before the eyes, display, draw one's sword, exhibit, flap, flaunt, flourish, gesture, rattle the saber, shake, show, swing, threaten, vibrare, wag, waggle, wave, wield.
Associated concepts: harassment, menacing.

INAL... I have common sense and normal comprehension... and I no longer inhabit the east where such is in short supply.
 

TFred

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Oct 13, 2008
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Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
B.S. ! You're an 'instructor'? Here's Websters...

'Definition of BRANDISH
1: to shake or wave (as a weapon) menacingly
2: to exhibit in an ostentatious or aggressive manner
Examples of BRANDISH
She brandished a stick at the dog.
I could see that he was brandishing a knife.'


To brandish indicates that you must have something in hand. A holstered/sheathed weapon is not borne in an ostentatious or aggressive manner (such as slung at the ready).
And if the first replies to this don't hammer home the point, read this case: http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opnscvwp/1032714.pdf

The man's conviction for brandishing was upheld simply because he lifted his shirt to display* a flare gun tucked in his waistband.

If Webster's were the source of legal guidance, we probably wouldn't need lawyers...

TFred

* Just noticed, "display" is one of the words used in your quoted legal definition...
 
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nova

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Aug 19, 2007
Messages
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Sonora Rebel maybe you and I have a wonderful advantage by living OUT WEST where the definitions and laws are somewhat MORE REALISTIC and less ONEROUS!.... you know, where a holstered firearm (absent other factors) is NOT BRANDISHING!

Wish I had a "face into palm" animated thingy!

watch it buddy, without VA and our declaration of rights which predates the United States of America, there wouldn't even be a Utah :p:dude:
 

nova

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Aug 19, 2007
Messages
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I took my jacket off and the place got empty fast (I thought I heard the word ICE):lol:

careful, ice is urban slang for "shoot" or "kill" just as much as Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Unless you also heard "no me Taze hermano!" then they probably thought you were law enforcement :lol:


(and I don't know if "taze" has a spanish equiv.)
 
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Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Y'all have obviously been practicing law in Virginia a lot longer than I have - gee, I must be mistaken; but I think ProShooter's "dead on", myself. Or else you are confused because the legal term, "brandishing" looks as though it's English. Perhaps you missed my earlier post in this thread in which I explained what I think the crime of "brandishing" is all about.

Maybe you missed that 'hold' part of the VA statute?

Burton's Legal Thesaurus, 4E. Copyright © 2007 by William C. Burton. Used with permission of The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc.

"brandish (verb) dangle before the eyes, display, draw one's sword, exhibit, flap, flaunt, flourish, gesture, rattle the saber, shake, show, swing, threaten, vibrare, wag, waggle, wave, wield.
Associated concepts: harassment, menacing.

INAL... I have common sense and normal comprehension... and I no longer inhabit the east where such is in short supply.

And if the first replies to this don't hammer home the point, read this case: http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opnscvwp/1032714.pdf

The man's conviction for brandishing was upheld simply because he lifted his shirt to display* a flare gun tucked in his waistband.

If Webster's were the source of legal guidance, we probably wouldn't need lawyers...

TFred

* Just noticed, "display" is one of the words used in your quoted legal definition...

“Brandish” means “to exhibit or expose in an ostentatious,
shameless, or aggressive manner.” Webster's Third New
International Dictionary, 268 (1993). When Morris looked at
Ms. Molina, said “[he'd] like that,” and then pulled up his
shirt to uncover the flare gun, he exhibited or exposed the
weapon in a shameless or aggressive manner. And Morris
brandished the weapon in such a manner as to reasonably induce
fear in the mind of Peter Molina. Although Molina may not have
said he was in fear for his own safety, he stated unequivocally
that he feared for the safety of his wife, and that is
sufficient to prove the “induced fear” element of a conviction
for brandishing a firearm under Code § 18.2-282.
http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinio...wp/1032714.pdf

Different definitions may apply in different states. When in Virginia, it is best to not aggressively display your handgun whether you touch it or not. End of story.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
careful, ice is urban slang for "shoot" or "kill" just as much as Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Unless you also heard "no me Taze hermano!" then they probably thought you were law enforcement :lol:


(and I don't know if "taze" has a spanish equiv.)

They didn't know it was a Tazer. In the holster it looks like ANY OF THE PLASTIC WONDERS.
I haven't ever noticed that any of our unwelcome visitors from south of the border were especially good at killing anyone, other than serving poison Chile.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
hey that's a low blow! Tasers are more ergonomic than some of those plastic wonders!





(says the guy who carrys a "Block" :lol:)

Mine is Blocky. I have the Model 27 with the yellow safety band removed and a Hogue grip band on it.
Taser cut the wattage on the new ergonomic models (Because people kept dropping dead ).
300_98245.jpg
 

ProShooter

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
4,663
Location
www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
B.S. ! You're an 'instructor'? Here's Websters...

'Definition of BRANDISH
1: to shake or wave (as a weapon) menacingly
2: to exhibit in an ostentatious or aggressive manner
Examples of BRANDISH
She brandished a stick at the dog.
I could see that he was brandishing a knife.'


To brandish indicates that you must have something in hand. A holstered/sheathed weapon is not borne in an ostentatious or aggressive manner (such as slung at the ready).

Wow, I go out to dinner and now my instructor credentials are questioned?

Let me ask you something Sonora Rebel...have you ever ARRESTED someone in the Commonwealth of Virginia for brandishing, like I have? Have you ever gained a CONVICTION on that arrest, like I have. If so, then you can tell me how wrong I am until the cows come home.

I've used this example before, and I'll say it again. You ever see the old gangster movies where the bad guy open his coat, and tucked in his waistband is a weapon? His gesture is usually followed up by some phrasing of "you better come with me, or you'll get this". Ok, are ya ready? Stay with me now....THAT"S BRANDISHING! He doesn't have to hold the gun or even touch it. Its the mere display of the weapon and the feeling of the victim that they will be shot that rises to the level of brandishing.

Thanks for playing now....Johnny has some lovely parting gifts for you backstage.
 
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