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Thread: Contradictions in debate over carrying guns

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    Contradictions in debate over carrying guns

    Oct 14, 2010

    It soon will be illegal in South Portland to carry a pellet gun, slingshot or bow and arrow in public.

    It will, however, be perfectly legal to carry a handgun in a holster or rifle slung over your shoulder.

    Does this make any sense?

    The South Portland City Council voted 6-1 last week to ban those far less lethal weapons at the urging of police Chief Edward Googins, who said the move was necessary to protect the community from "those who are acting unreasonably."

    Googins, according to the Southern Forecaster newspaper, says the department has received calls about men in masks with guns, likely involved in war games with nonlethal airsoft guns. These are replica weapons that fire plastic pellets.

    Which begs the question: How can a person carrying an airsoft gun in a public place be acting unreasonably when a person carrying a Colt .45 is not?

    The new ordinance also comes on the heels of several recent open-carry events in Portland. These involved people with guns, but without the masks, simply making the point that they can carry their guns just about anywhere they like.

    As we have pointed out in the past, just because you can do something doesn't always mean you should.

    It is, indeed, legal for people in Maine to openly carry a gun. And nobody thinks twice about this when they see two hunters walking down a rural road with shotguns over their shoulders.

    However, the same two men might cause a considerable panic if they strolled into the food court at the Maine Mall.

    READ MORE
    Last edited by Maine CWP Training; 10-14-2010 at 06:23 AM.
    Paul J. Mattson
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    Sent to the sj

    Your editorial board’s “Contradictions in debate over carrying guns,” missed the mark as it relates to the Maine Constitution, law and fundamental common sense.

    Speaking to the issue of firearms, open carry of firearms is allowed by Maine law and there has never been an incident in the State of Maine where this lawful activity violated the rights or injured unarmed citizens. Never.

    Individual law abiding citizens exercise open carry or concealed carry at the Maine Mall Food Court, because it is perfectly legal. Maine has a long list of prohibited persons: (http://www.mainelegislature.org/legi...e15sec393.html ) that may not own or possess a firearm. Should one of these individuals violate Maine law by simple possession he or she should be arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

    Maine statutes specifically prescribe remedies for the armed citizen to protect themselves and innocent others in active shooter situations:

    §101. General rules for defenses and affirmative defenses; justification Conduct that is justifiable under this chapter constitutes a defense to any crime; except that, if a person is justified in using force against another, but the person recklessly injures or creates a risk of injury to 3rd persons, the justification afforded by this chapter is unavailable in a prosecution for such recklessness.

    §108. Physical force in defense of a person: 2. A person is justified in using deadly force upon another person: A. When the person reasonably believes it necessary and reasonably believes such other person is: (1) About to use unlawful, deadly force against the person or a 3rd person; or (2) Committing or about to commit a kidnapping, robbery or a violation of section 253, subsection 1, paragraph A, against the person or a 3rd person.

    Creating gun free zones only affords the criminal element of our society the opportunity to harm innocent men, women and children of all walks of life. Maine’s low crime rate is attributed to the population’s high degree of gun possession and ownership. Portland’s Chief Craig has publicly stated he is amazed, Maine liberally gives out Concealed Firearms Permits and has a very low crime rate and where he came from Los Angeles, seldom authorized a Concealed Firearm Permit the crime rate was very high.

    Councilman Skolnik’s proposal is in direct conflict with his oath of office to uphold the Maine Constitution and the laws of the State of Maine. A fifth grader could interpret Article I of the Maine Constitution~ Section 16. To keep and bear arms. Every citizen has a right to keep and bear arms and this right shall never be questioned.

    Quite frankly, I feel safer knowing more law abiding citizens around me have a firearm on them should an active shooter situation arise. Law enforcement can’t be everywhere so I make it my personal responsibility to protect myself and family. After all, it is my unalienable Right under the U.S. Constitution.

    Last but not least, Maine legislators did not ban guns in their workplace. It is a “RULE” created by the Bureau of Capitol Security.
    Paul J. Mattson
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    #63731855
    Maine CWP Training
    101 Main St.
    Harrison, ME 04040

    www.mainecwptraining.com

    (207) 583-4723
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    Regular Member crdonov's Avatar
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    s. portland

    im a taxpayer in s. portland. the new ordaince doesnt make sense to me either. mayby i should oc my handgun, and have my slingshot in my back pocket. what do you think the police would do?

    xd-over

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    Paul J. Mattson
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    Maine CWP Training
    101 Main St.
    Harrison, ME 04040

    www.mainecwptraining.com

    (207) 583-4723
    CELL 232-7063

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    Quote Originally Posted by crdonov View Post
    im a taxpayer in s. portland. the new ordaince doesnt make sense to me either. mayby i should oc my handgun, and have my slingshot in my back pocket. what do you think the police would do?

    xd-over
    this has HORRIBLE IDEA written all over it...

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    Regular Member crdonov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanebelanger View Post
    this has HORRIBLE IDEA written all over it...
    not sure what you mean?

    xd-over

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    Regular Member ep0k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crdonov View Post
    not sure what you mean?

    xd-over
    Well, you don't want to carry a prohibited item, no matter how silly it is.

    I agree it would be a clever statement showing what is illegal and what is legal, but you don't want to put yourself in a position where the police can act against you for any reason.
    v/r
    Forrest Brown
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    Regular Member ep0k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maine CWP Training View Post
    Your editorial board’s “Contradictions in debate over carrying guns,” missed the mark as it relates to the Maine Constitution, law and fundamental common sense.

    Speaking to the issue of firearms, open carry of firearms is allowed by Maine law and there has never been an incident in the State of Maine where this lawful activity violated the rights or injured unarmed citizens. Never.

    Individual law abiding citizens exercise open carry or concealed carry at the Maine Mall Food Court, because it is perfectly legal. Maine has a long list of prohibited persons: (http://www.mainelegislature.org/legi...e15sec393.html ) that may not own or possess a firearm. Should one of these individuals violate Maine law by simple possession he or she should be arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

    Maine statutes specifically prescribe remedies for the armed citizen to protect themselves and innocent others in active shooter situations:

    §101. General rules for defenses and affirmative defenses; justification Conduct that is justifiable under this chapter constitutes a defense to any crime; except that, if a person is justified in using force against another, but the person recklessly injures or creates a risk of injury to 3rd persons, the justification afforded by this chapter is unavailable in a prosecution for such recklessness.

    §108. Physical force in defense of a person: 2. A person is justified in using deadly force upon another person: A. When the person reasonably believes it necessary and reasonably believes such other person is: (1) About to use unlawful, deadly force against the person or a 3rd person; or (2) Committing or about to commit a kidnapping, robbery or a violation of section 253, subsection 1, paragraph A, against the person or a 3rd person.

    Creating gun free zones only affords the criminal element of our society the opportunity to harm innocent men, women and children of all walks of life. Maine’s low crime rate is attributed to the population’s high degree of gun possession and ownership. Portland’s Chief Craig has publicly stated he is amazed, Maine liberally gives out Concealed Firearms Permits and has a very low crime rate and where he came from Los Angeles, seldom authorized a Concealed Firearm Permit the crime rate was very high.

    Councilman Skolnik’s proposal is in direct conflict with his oath of office to uphold the Maine Constitution and the laws of the State of Maine. A fifth grader could interpret Article I of the Maine Constitution~ Section 16. To keep and bear arms. Every citizen has a right to keep and bear arms and this right shall never be questioned.

    Quite frankly, I feel safer knowing more law abiding citizens around me have a firearm on them should an active shooter situation arise. Law enforcement can’t be everywhere so I make it my personal responsibility to protect myself and family. After all, it is my unalienable Right under the U.S. Constitution.

    Last but not least, Maine legislators did not ban guns in their workplace. It is a “RULE” created by the Bureau of Capitol Security.
    This is a really good response. It's the Sun Journal so you can expect a hostile reception. Thankfully the PPH, MPR and Channel 8 weren't so deliberately one-sided and editorialized in their articles.
    Last edited by ep0k; 10-15-2010 at 01:13 PM.
    v/r
    Forrest Brown
    Webmaster, Maine Open Carry Association
    forrest@maineopencarry.org

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    Regular Member crdonov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ep0k View Post
    Well, you don't want to carry a prohibited item, no matter how silly it is.

    I agree it would be a clever statement showing what is illegal and what is legal, but you don't want to put yourself in a position where the police can act against you for any reason.
    ya, your right. wasnt thinking

    xd-over

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    Today's sun journal

    Editorial missed the mark
    By Paul Mattson
    Published Oct 17, 2010

    The Oct. 14 editorial, "Contradictions in debate over carrying guns," missed the mark as it relates to the Maine Constitution, law and fundamental common sense.

    Speaking to the issue of firearms, open carry of firearms is allowed by Maine law and there has never been an incident in the state of Maine where this lawful activity violated the rights or injured unarmed citizens. Never.

    Individual, law-abiding citizens exercise open carry or concealed carry at the Maine Mall food court because it is perfectly legal.

    Maine has a long list of prohibited persons who may not own or possess a firearm. Should one of these individuals violate Maine law by simple possession, he or she should be arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

    Maine statutes specifically prescribe remedies for armed citizens to protect themselves and innocent others in active-shooter situations:

    SNIP

    Editor's note: According to the Maine Mall security office, the mall is private property and weapons are not permitted inside the mall, including the food court. Notices are posted on entry doors regarding the no-weapons policy.
    PS; I HAVE NEVER BEEN ASKED TO LEAVE MY GUN AT THE DOOR

    READ MORE
    Paul J. Mattson
    NRA Certified Instructor / RSO
    #63731855
    Maine CWP Training
    101 Main St.
    Harrison, ME 04040

    www.mainecwptraining.com

    (207) 583-4723
    CELL 232-7063

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    Regular Member ep0k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maine CWP Training View Post
    Editorial missed the mark
    By Paul Mattson
    Published Oct 17, 2010

    The Oct. 14 editorial, "Contradictions in debate over carrying guns," missed the mark as it relates to the Maine Constitution, law and fundamental common sense.

    Speaking to the issue of firearms, open carry of firearms is allowed by Maine law and there has never been an incident in the state of Maine where this lawful activity violated the rights or injured unarmed citizens. Never.

    Individual, law-abiding citizens exercise open carry or concealed carry at the Maine Mall food court because it is perfectly legal.

    Maine has a long list of prohibited persons who may not own or possess a firearm. Should one of these individuals violate Maine law by simple possession, he or she should be arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

    Maine statutes specifically prescribe remedies for armed citizens to protect themselves and innocent others in active-shooter situations:

    SNIP

    Editor's note: According to the Maine Mall security office, the mall is private property and weapons are not permitted inside the mall, including the food court. Notices are posted on entry doors regarding the no-weapons policy.
    PS; I HAVE NEVER BEEN ASKED TO LEAVE MY GUN AT THE DOOR

    READ MORE
    That's odd. I've never OC'd at the Maine Mall but I've also never noticed a "no-weapons" policy posted on any of the doors.
    v/r
    Forrest Brown
    Webmaster, Maine Open Carry Association
    forrest@maineopencarry.org

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    Regular Member crdonov's Avatar
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    mall

    i dont think they have signs. have never seen one.

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    Regular Member ep0k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crdonov View Post
    i dont think they have signs. have never seen one.
    I've made a point of looking for them in the past when I was CC'ing and I have no memory of ever seeing such a sign.

    More lies and distortion, I guess.
    v/r
    Forrest Brown
    Webmaster, Maine Open Carry Association
    forrest@maineopencarry.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by ep0k View Post
    I've made a point of looking for them in the past when I was CC'ing and I have no memory of ever seeing such a sign.

    More lies and distortion, I guess.
    If you enter the food court entrance and look to the left there is a small plaque on the wall with mall rules, It's about a 12x12 inch plaque and the font is about size 18. Rule number 7 or 8 or so says no weapons. I don't know about the other mall entrances, but I know this sign is NOT at the Best Buy entrance to the mall or the Macy's Entrance to the mall.

    This sign carries no weight of law and I've discussed that with mall security as they asked me to leave while open carrying in Sears. Now when I shop at the mall, I don't go into the mall common area. I shop at the stores with gun friendly policies such as Best Buy, and enter via the Best Buy entrance, not the mall entrance. So far, no problems have arisen.

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