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Thread: Seward Park Jogger Attacked

  1. #1
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Seward Park Jogger Attacked

    I said it before, a sidearm isn't everything, but it's a good down payment. Good thing she had the fire in her to fight back, even though the SOB had a knife. Just another example for the ladies.


    "The moment the jogger in Seattle's Seward Park saw him, her intuition told her something wasn't right. When he attacked, she instinctively fought back"

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...attack14m.html
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member Stretch's Avatar
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    Good for her and her fighting spirit. We just showed our 2 young girls a video online called, "Just Yell Fire". It teaches them simple to use self defense (for those not old enough to carry) and how to react in a situation like the article talked about.

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    One other thing, don't smack the jewels, grab them, squeeze and pull.

    "Grab them by the b*lls and their hearts and minds will follow!"

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    To make this more fitting our rules, she would have better prepared to defend herself and might never had been attacked had she been OCing.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  5. #5
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    To make this more fitting our rules, she would have better prepared to defend herself and might never had been attacked had she been OCing.
    She would not have been able to use her weapon in self defense though. Her life was not in danger...

    Seattle Times:
    The woman suffered a broken nose and facial fractures, but otherwise said she "was not severely injured."

    Our laws need to change. If someone steps into your life circle uninvited and is a threat, you should be able to shoot them. It sucks we dont have a clarification on how badly you have to be beaten, bleeding, and near death before you can defend yourself with a firearm. We shouldnt have to be Batman with a utility belt full of crap and go through steps in accordance to equal the threat.
    Last edited by amzbrady; 10-15-2010 at 01:25 AM.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
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    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    She would not have been able to use her weapon in self defense though. Her life was not in danger...

    Seattle Times:
    The woman suffered a broken nose and facial fractures, but otherwise said she "was not severely injured."

    Our laws need to change. If someone steps into your life circle uninvited and is a threat, you should be able to shoot them. It sucks we dont have a clarification on how badly you have to be beaten, bleeding, and near death before you can defend yourself with a firearm. We shouldnt have to be Batman with a utility belt full of crap and go through steps in accordance to equal the threat.
    Are you serious about her not being able to use a gun? Maybe I'm missing something but if someone who grabs me and has a knife and is beating me in the face, I'm gonna figure I'm in danger of grave bodily harm and shoot if I'm able to. He could have stabbed her or slit her throat. He was armed and she wasn't. I'm not being a smart ass, I really want to know why she wouldn't be justified in defending her life with deadly force. If someone with a knife grabbed me, I would assume they meant to do me harm, up to and including killing me.
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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    She would not have been able to use her weapon in self defense though. Her life was not in danger...

    Seattle Times:
    The woman suffered a broken nose and facial fractures, but otherwise said she "was not severely injured."

    Our laws need to change. If someone steps into your life circle uninvited and is a threat, you should be able to shoot them. It sucks we dont have a clarification on how badly you have to be beaten, bleeding, and near death before you can defend yourself with a firearm. We shouldnt have to be Batman with a utility belt full of crap and go through steps in accordance to equal the threat.
    If she had been armed, deadly force was authorized.
    Man versus Woman Disparity of Force
    Being jumped and hit and as it appears being knocked to the ground, no doubt one would be in fear for their life at that moment in time along with him having the ability to inflict grievous bodily harm or death.

    It is not about the injury after the attack that one had incurred it is the threat of life or limb.

    Thankfully she was able to fight him off.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran OlGutshotWilly's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Grapeshot
    To make this more fitting our rules, she would have better prepared to defend herself and might never had been attacked had she been OCing.
    My wife and I had a chat about this very thing this morning.

    amzbrady posted:
    She would not have been able to use her weapon in self defense though. Her life was not in danger...
    I'm with "Ruby" on this one. How was her life not considered in danger if he attacked her and had a knife? Am I missing something obvious? If he was beating her hard enough to cause multiple facial fractures, that could be considered life threatening as well.
    As soon as she suffered a decreased level of consciousness, she is dragged off into the bushes and raped and killed.
    THE SECOND AMENDMENT: Washington didn't use his right to free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    I was showing how askew the media makes things, they said "she was not severly injured", making it seem that everything is just freaking hunky dory in her life cause she is going to recover. But will she, can she jog without fear like she has up until that point? NO. There are several instances where people have merely even just drawn their weapon without having to take a life and stopped the threat and still are dealing with consequenses of it http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...on-On-Attacker.
    What would have happened if the guy had not came along and helped her, where would the attacker have stopped? After a rape, after a murder? The point I was making (evidently I have to spell it out) is that our laws need to change for the victim (or better so that you do not have to be a victim). To many times the victimizer has more rights after a crime than the victim, and if the victim happens to stop the crime through equal or greater force than by most standards by our modern laws, the victimizer has become the victim. That pi$$es me off.
    Last edited by amzbrady; 10-15-2010 at 02:50 AM.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    Regular Member skiingislife725's Avatar
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    amzbrady, what laws need to change? If I understand them correctly, specifically 9A.16, we already have in place the laws that are needed. We can protect ourselves with a firearm or other weapon if we feel that our lives are in danger or of great bodily harm. Lady against young fit male is already enough to use deadly force if needed because of the disparity of force there.

    I do love the whole article though. Lady talking about how she's doing just fine and then goes, "But I still haven't been out of the house." Yah, that's because you are not fine and you can admit that and say that you're working on getting over it.

    Also, I'm not buying the she used her might against the young guys and that's the reason that she got away story. If she had done it herself than I would buy it, but I'm honestly thinking that the other man coming to her rescue had a lot more to do with it.

    Now before I get flamed, what I'm trying to say is that, as the saying goes, "A man's gotta know his limitations." It's ok to admit that you weren't prepared to fight someone that was half your age and twice as strong. They don't even let professional fighters do that! So it's ok! Just acknowledge the reality of it. Myself, I'm 5'8" 170ish. Not tiny...but there's a lot of people bigger and stronger than me. I just have to acknowledge that and take steps to "equalize" that disparity of force.

    Last thing I want to say in this novel is that I find it silly that now she's going to avoid one certain trail, but I'm assuming that all other trails are fair game for her to run? Someone was just talking about this psychological phenomenon the other day. That is, thinking something is more likely to happen because it sticks out in your mind. The Forza Coffee Shop massacre is a prime example of it. And it's the same thing that happened at Crystal Mt. when an avalanche occurred on a certain slope and someone got buried and now that slope has never been reopened. But slopes right by that one have avalanches all the time!

  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiingislife725 View Post
    snip......

    Last thing I want to say in this novel is that I find it silly that now she's going to avoid one certain trail, but I'm assuming that all other trails are fair game for her to run? Someone was just talking about this psychological phenomenon the other day. That is, thinking something is more likely to happen because it sticks out in your mind. The Forza Coffee Shop massacre is a prime example of it. And it's the same thing that happened at Crystal Mt. when an avalanche occurred on a certain slope and someone got buried and now that slope has never been reopened. But slopes right by that one have avalanches all the time!
    Psychology 101 - If you do not think about it, it ceases to exist for you. It is the "out of sight, out of mind" thing to the extreme.

    Same for businesses and public entities - remove the source of the tragedy from the public's mind and it will cease to be an issue.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    What they need to do is put more signs up in the park stating "criminal activity is prohibited."

    Someone had commented on the article that jogging with a sidearm is dangerous, and awkward, or something to that effect. If I were to carry while running, I would carry a LCP...very light, as if it wasn't even there. That is, if I was still a runner, I am more of a sitter these days LOL
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 10-15-2010 at 01:43 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  13. #13
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Psychology 101 - If you do not think about it, it ceases to exist for you. It is the "out of sight, out of mind" thing to the extreme.

    Same for businesses and public entities - remove the source of the tragedy from the public's mind and it will cease to be an issue.
    So true, Look at the anti's, they think by getting law abiding citizens banned from carrying guns, that will prevent criminals from committing a gun crime. Maybe they think if EVERYONE is unarmed police will magically respond to crimes before they happen.

    As far as her not taking a certain trail again, but will use others around it, I dont understand the phylosiphy on that, if anything wouldnt you want to take that trail again, since you know there are people to come to your rescue, and maybe it's like lightining. A crime never strikes the same place twice. Just thought I would inject some of my own idiology in on top of her's.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    snip.....
    As far as her not taking a certain trail again, but will use others around it, I dont understand the phylosiphy on that, if anything wouldnt you want to take that trail again, since you know there are people to come to your rescue, and maybe it's like lightining. A crime never strikes the same place twice. Just thought I would inject some of my own idiology in on top of her's.
    If I remember correctly the other trails she ran were more open and less secluded - this particular trail was more isolated. At least she seems willing to venture out again.

    Lightening and attacks DO strike twice at the same location.

    We've all read where a certain branch bank is robbed repeatedly, sometimes by the same perps and then there is this: Serial rapists returns 5 days later to repeat his crime, but is stopped by a 12 gauge.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NJQK2BscIg
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Serial rapists returns 5 days later to repeat his crime, but is stopped by a 12 gauge.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NJQK2BscIg

    Now that is justice!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post

    Lightening and attacks DO strike twice at the same location.
    I know they do, I was being totally sarcastic. I guess I need to put it in quotes with the word sarcasim, when I am so everyone can catch it.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

  17. #17
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    I know they do, I was being totally sarcastic. I guess I need to put it in quotes with the word sarcasim, when I am so everyone can catch it.
    Can't others play too?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    I know they do, I was being totally sarcastic. I guess I need to put it in quotes with the word sarcasim, when I am so everyone can catch it.
    Or just throw a LOL or after the sarcasm.

    Like I have never been sarcastic in this forum
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  19. #19
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Or just throw a LOL or after the sarcasm.

    Like I have never been sarcastic in this forum
    There is now an "official" Sarcasm emoticon called a "SarkMark". Looks like this:



    Sort of a special "punctuation mark". Here's more info:

    http://mashable.com/2010/01/15/sarcmark/

    (isn't a capitalistic society wonderful. Someone has come up with a way to sell punctuation marks now)
    Last edited by amlevin; 10-16-2010 at 10:09 AM.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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  20. #20
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    There is now an "official" Sarcasm emoticon called a "SarkMark". Looks like this:



    Sort of a special "punctuation mark".
    Yep, really look for that to take off big time - I mean its meaning is so readily identifiable.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  21. #21
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Yep, really look for that to take off big time - I mean its meaning is so readily identifiable.
    I agree but you've got to admit, someone had a money making idea. Selling "punctuation marks" is kind of like selling ice cubes in Nome.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by skiingislife725 View Post
    Last thing I want to say in this novel is that I find it silly that now she's going to avoid one certain trail, but I'm assuming that all other trails are fair game for her to run? Someone was just talking about this psychological phenomenon the other day. That is, thinking something is more likely to happen because it sticks out in your mind. The Forza Coffee Shop massacre is a prime example of it. And it's the same thing that happened at Crystal Mt. when an avalanche occurred on a certain slope and someone got buried and now that slope has never been reopened. But slopes right by that one have avalanches all the time!
    That was me. It's called the misleading vividness or spotlight fallacy.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Regular Member skiingislife725's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    That was me. It's called the misleading vividness or spotlight fallacy.
    Yah, that was it! Very interesting stuff. I notice it all the time now.

  24. #24
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Psychology 101 - If you do not think about it, it ceases to exist for you. It is the "out of sight, out of mind" thing to the extreme.

    Same for businesses and public entities - remove the source of the tragedy from the public's mind and it will cease to be an issue.
    Or replace it with a new one...it's called the news cycle....or if they have more time, and want to take it to a higher level as an issue, it's called the "Overton Window"
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt59 View Post
    Or replace it with a new one...it's called the news cycle....or if they have more time, and want to take it to a higher level as an issue, it's called the "Overton Window"
    Some people approach an issue using variations of the "window".

    "Other formulations of the process created after Overton's death add the concept of moving the window, such as deliberately promoting ideas even less acceptable than the previous "outer fringe" ideas, with the intention of making the current fringe ideas acceptable by comparison (This might be a form of the “Door-in-the-face technique" of persuasion.)."

    Could this be the intent of those who go seeking confrontation???
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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