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Thread: Gene German Makes Sense on WI v. Schultz... (long post)

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    Gene German Makes Sense on WI v. Schultz... (long post)


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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    A decent writeup!

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    Regular Member ckmorley's Avatar
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    So CCW is legal now ?????????
    Anti-gunners tell us to run away from muggers. What about those of us who can't run ?

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ckmorley View Post
    So CCW is legal now ?????????
    In Clark County at least. Read the other thread for Nik's take on it. http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...-a-heads-up-Pa

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    I had really hoped that I would not see all those misspelled words and other grammatical errors in Germans piece, It makes us as a class of people look undereducated, ignorant and of generally low intelligence when the self-proclaimed leader of carry rights in WI (who happens to be a MN resident) has such difficulty spelling common words.

    genie is spelled as Jennie, Etc Etc Etc.

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    Gene needs to STAY in MN

    What the heck is is with these guys like Gene German. Can you believe he was on Vicki McKenna today trying to take credit for this?

    It ain't his arse in the sling here, rather 5 WCI members. Then we get the NRA still wanting mandated training JUST LIKE German.

    I say we send ALL these "out-of-state" lobbyists back home.

    Somebody go tell German "this ain't MN, we actually HAVE 'right-to-carry' already!"

    Then go tell the NRA the same thing. The boat has tipped over and the ccw ban is sinking fast. These "out-of-state" groups are rushing in to make a quick buck at our expense. I say kick them out!

    Wisconsin for Wisconsin, NRA and German be damned!

    BTW: German's resolution idea fell FLAT ON IT'S FACE. It wasn't the NRA, or German that brought this about, it was ordinary WISCONSIN residents.

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    Founder's Club Member springfield 1911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veto The Tax View Post
    What the heck is is with these guys like Gene German. Can you believe he was on Vicki McKenna today trying to take credit for this?

    It ain't his arse in the sling here, rather 5 WCI members. Then we get the NRA still wanting mandated training JUST LIKE German.

    I say we send ALL these "out-of-state" lobbyists back home.

    Somebody go tell German "this ain't MN, we actually HAVE 'right-to-carry' already!"

    Then go tell the NRA the same thing. The boat has tipped over and the ccw ban is sinking fast. These "out-of-state" groups are rushing in to make a quick buck at our expense. I say kick them out!

    Wisconsin for Wisconsin, NRA and German be damned!

    BTW: German's resolution idea fell FLAT ON IT'S FACE. It wasn't the NRA, or German that brought this about, it was ordinary WISCONSIN residents.
    Well said, Either join our fight to repeal 941.23 or get the hell out of the way cause the freight trains a rolling.

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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    Any "open carry movement" that started in a hotel meeting room in March 2007 must have been stillborn. The open carry movement that actually made a difference and has something to show for it-- was born with an Apgar score of 10 in a house near Burlington in April 2009.
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    In Clark County at least. Read the other thread for Nik's take on it. http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...-a-heads-up-Pa
    Not so fast, the court document reads:
    STATE OF WISCONSIN
    CIRCUIT COURT
    CLARK COUNTY
    STATE OF WISCONSIN
    Plaintiff/Petitioner

    That means the State of Wisconsin, it was only tried in the Clark county state court. I think this court decision could be binding throughout the state. IANAL, but I think I could be correct here. It is a state court. Granted it would be even better if it is appealed and won again. But it still has precedence.
    Last edited by J.Gleason; 10-15-2010 at 12:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nutczak View Post
    I had really hoped that I would not see all those misspelled words and other grammatical errors in Germans piece, It makes us as a class of people look undereducated, ignorant and of generally low intelligence when the self-proclaimed leader of carry rights in WI (who happens to be a MN resident) has such difficulty spelling common words.

    genie is spelled as Jennie, Etc Etc Etc.
    That is just another reason he should leave Wisconsin business to Wisconsin people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shotgun View Post
    Any "open carry movement" that started in a hotel meeting room in March 2007 must have been stillborn. The open carry movement that actually made a difference and has something to show for it-- was born with an Apgar score of 10 in a house near Burlington in April 2009.
    I was thinking the very same!

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Gleason View Post
    Not so fast, the court document reads:
    STATE OF WISCONSIN
    CIRCUIT COURT
    CLARK COUNTY
    STATE OF WISCONSIN
    Plaintiff/Petitioner

    That means the State of Wisconsin, it was only tried in the Clark county state court. I think this court decision could be binding throughout the state. IANAL, but I think I could be correct here. It is a state court. Granted it would be even better if it is appealed and won again. But it still has precedence.
    I agree, that is why I said to look at the other thread. Nik talked to a WCI lawyer and has more details.
    Last edited by paul@paul-fisher.com; 10-15-2010 at 08:46 AM. Reason: Fixed possibly misleading information.

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    Nobody campaigned harder for passage of the ill fated Personal Protection Act than Gene German. He and I as well as Dick Baker and I exchanged a number of emails on the subjects of open vs concealed carry, training requirements, cost of training as well as other issues. Now he wants to disavow his participation by passing the ball to Dick Baker. Gene was just as intent in getting SB-214(2003) and SB-403 (2005) passed as anyone involved. Dick Baker as lead of WCCA was very involved and dedicated to conceal carry. As a result of all the emails I exchanged with him I got to respect his honesty and opinions even though I disagreed with his ideas. He, German, Rep Gunderson, Sen Zien, NRA and Mike Bruhn all poo-pooed my idea that Hamdan gave us the right to open carry and that the Personal Protection Act was not needed. Now Gene wants to take credit for the open carry movement? We all know that the credit belongs to nik, Hubert, Jesus, Brad, As well as many other proactive members of OCDO, those that said and say "This is my constitutional right. Get out of my face". As ccwinstructor German has been posting as a profound supporter of open carry and I applaud him for that but my recollection of things gone by don't co-incide with his words of today. If he wants to join the "movement" as an active supporter of WCI and give credit where credit is due, welcome aboard. If he wants to take the credit for the open carry movement then "get off the wagon". I still have those emails.
    Last edited by Captain Nemo; 10-15-2010 at 08:06 AM.

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    I don't read it as Gene taking credit. He mentions the common man as being the ones that are making this happen.

    And then lets not forget that ANYONE, regardless of their level of participation helped get us to the point we are today. If the previous bills had not been put forward, supported but been vetoed and Doyle had not made his comments on OC I doubt WCI would have even been created.

    WCI is the tip of the arrow but the efforts of many went into creating the shaft.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    I agree, that is why I said to look at the other thread. WCI's lawyers believe it does apply statewide but not to get too excited until an appeal decision is made.
    I would be careful with your word choice.

    If upheld on appeal one of our attorneys believes it is a broad strikedown of the CCW statute that would be applicable statewide.

    RIGHT NOW, I don't think anyone anywhere else in the state should be hanging their hat on this decision and CC'ing.

    Fortunately for Clark County, they have only 1 circuit court judge, so this judge is teh ONLY judge that will hear a CCW case in Clark County and it seems logical you can expect the same ruling if you carry concealed in clark county and get charged.
    www.wisconsincarry.org Wisconsin Carry, Inc. is not affiliated with opencarry.org or these web forums. Questions about discussion forum policy or forum moderation should be directed to the owners of opencarry.org not Wisconsin Carry, Inc.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman View Post
    I would be careful with your word choice.

    If upheld on appeal one of our attorneys believes it is a broad strikedown of the CCW statute that would be applicable statewide.

    RIGHT NOW, I don't think anyone anywhere else in the state should be hanging their hat on this decision and CC'ing.

    Fortunately for Clark County, they have only 1 circuit court judge, so this judge is teh ONLY judge that will hear a CCW case in Clark County and it seems logical you can expect the same ruling if you carry concealed in clark county and get charged.
    I will edit my post. What I had said in some other posts was that they should go read your response in the other thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    I will edit my post. What I had said in some other posts was that they should go read your response in the other thread.
    Nope I still believe that this case has precedence state wide. It is a state court and the judges decision can influence other cases in other counties as well.

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    Regular Member comp45acp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Gleason View Post
    Nope I still believe that this case has precedence state wide. It is a state court and the judges decision can influence other cases in other counties as well.
    So you know more than the WCI attorney I guess?

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    I'm not exactly sure but I believe that the different districts within Wisconsin are kind of like the different districts in the federal courts.

    J is right that another court in wisconsin could look at this decision but they also could come up with a completely different opinion. At that point, with conflicting opinions at the district level, it would be up to the Wisconsin supreme court to resolve the conflict.

    As an example, remember that for a while in California and the rest of the states in that district, via Nordyke v. King, the second amendment was applied. This was before McDonald and before the case was to be reheard en blanc. If this wouldn't have happened it would have created a conflict between the federal districts, causing the supreme court to need to take care of the mess.
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    Quote Originally Posted by comp45acp View Post
    So you know more than the WCI attorney I guess?
    hmmmm, never know

    By the way, does a law degree mean that you are always right?
    Last edited by J.Gleason; 10-15-2010 at 09:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    Nobody campaigned harder for passage of the ill fated Personal Protection Act than Gene German. He and I as well as Dick Baker and I exchanged a number of emails on the subjects of open vs concealed carry, training requirements, cost of training as well as other issues. Now he wants to disavow his participation by passing the ball to Dick Baker. Gene was just as intent in getting SB-214(2003) and SB-403 (2005) passed as anyone involved. Dick Baker as lead of WCCA was very involved and dedicated to conceal carry. As a result of all the emails I exchanged with him I got to respect his honesty and opinions even though I disagreed with his ideas. He, German, Rep Gunderson, Sen Zien, NRA and Mike Bruhn all poo-pooed my idea that Hamdan gave us the right to open carry and that the Personal Protection Act was not needed. Now Gene wants to take credit for the open carry movement? We all know that the credit belongs to nik, Hubert, Jesus, Brad, As well as many other proactive members of OCDO, those that said and say "This is my constitutional right. Get out of my face". As ccwinstructor German has been posting as a profound supporter of open carry and I applaud him for that but my recollection of things gone by don't co-incide with his words of today. If he wants to join the "movement" as an active supporter of WCI and give credit where credit is due, welcome aboard. If he wants to take the credit for the open carry movement then "get off the wagon". I still have those emails.
    My recollection, and I may still have old emails too-- I proposed using open carry as leverage to get CC years ago, before the PPA was stopped in its tracks, and Dick and the PPA movement guys resisted the idea. They seemed to believe it would backfire as a political tactic.
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    Spartacus says.

    "WCI is the tip of the arrow but the efforts of many went into creating the shaft."

    Well lets hope we don't get the shaft.

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    Regular Member comp45acp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Gleason View Post
    hmmmm, never know

    By the way, does a law degree mean that you are always right?
    No, but the odds of him being correct are quite a bit higher than someone with no law agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Gleason View Post
    hmmmm, never know

    By the way, does a law degree mean that you are always right?
    Always being RIGHT means you are ALWAYS RIGHT!

    I am ALWAYS accused of being "RIGHT" by those who are "LEFT."

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    Quote Originally Posted by bnhcomputing View Post
    Always being RIGHT means you are ALWAYS RIGHT!

    I am ALWAYS accused of being "RIGHT" by those who are "WRONG."
    Fixed!
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

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