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Thread: Bad Experience with Carmel PD

  1. #1
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    Bad Experience with Carmel PD

    I posted this on INGUNOWNERS.COM and thought I should give a headups here too.

    No good deed goes unpunished, as the old saying goes.

    Here’s how things went down:

    I looked out my back window and saw that one of my neighbor’s dogs had gotten out of the fence around the yard. He has two of them, brothers, and they act decidedly unfriendly toward walkers and joggers passing by the house. I've never seen them outside that fence since they were pups and had no real way of knowing how dangerous they might be at large on the street. My subdivision tends toward retirees with a lot of people walking powder-puff class dogs, and I knew that an encounter between my neighbor’s dog and one of them could mean trouble. It was also just about time for school buses to start showing up and I was concerned about small children walking into the neighboring suburb. In addition, despite his taste in mutts my neighbor really is a good guy to have living next door, and I didn’t want one of his dogs hit on the busy road nearby.

    I went outside. Before doing so I slipped my S&W Model 1950 .45 in my back pocket. Be prepared, as Teddy Roosevelt used to say. The dog was aggressive but not quite brave enough to come after me. I tried coaxing him back into the area of the fence that he’d bent out and escaped from. No dice. I tried luring him into my garage. Did no good with that either. We were back at the corner of his property when his brother noticed the spot in the fence and wormed out…great. Now they were BOTH at large. The wife was frantically trying to make telephone contact with the owner, who was not at home.

    The two dogs spied one of my neighbors, an elderly lady, walking her squirrel-sized dog and went for her. I managed, with yelling and hell-raising, to divert them and prevent them attacking the terrified woman.

    They kept wandering around the immediate area but would return to their property when I called them. I was making one more attempt to entice them back through the damaged part of the fence when it happened.

    I don’t know whether the first dog finally got his courage up or he was emboldened by the presence of his brother, but the first dog attacked me. He got me by the left leg. I pulled free and he got me again. The other dog moved in. Both dogs are large and powerful and I could NOT take the chance on letting them get me down on the ground.

    I pulled the Smith and fired a shot into the ground off to my right. Both mutts vamoosed like I’d doused them with boiling water.
    Then, like the idiot like I am, I called Carmel PD and reported it. I should have known better.

    A Carmel patrol officer showed up along with Animal Control. The mutts had gotten enough excitement for one day and had re-entered their yard while I was making the 911 call. I quickly jury-rigged a repair to the fence to prevent another escape. The Animal Control guy left the scene.

    I introduced myself to the officer by means of my badge and my LTCH. I explained the whole story to him. He then told me that he was charging me with discharging my firearm in the city.

    Having been in municipal law enforcement my whole adult life I’m aware that all municipalities have ordinances that prohibit discharge of firearms within corporation limits. I’m also aware that they all necessarily have exceptions for things like self-defense. I pointed this out to the young officer.

    His rationale was that since I didn’t actually kill my neighbor’s dog, I wasn’t really in any danger, and therefore wasn’t acting in self-defense, and for me to fire a round into the ground instead of shooting the dog was reckless. I somehow managed to stand patiently and listen as this guy, who was still messing his pants when I was running a beat in Cincinnati’s ghettos, lectured me on gun safety.

    This is the text of Carmel’s municipal ordinance:

    § 6-65 Use of Weapons Prohibited.
    (a) It is declared to be unlawful for any person, with or without malice, purposely and deliberately to point, aim or fire a pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, firearm or any other dangerous or deadly weapon within the corporate limits or within the established boundaries of the City.
    (Ord. D-292, § 1, 3-16-81)
    (b) Any person who violates any provision of this section shall be fined not less than $10 nor more than $500 for each offense, in addition to which the weapon may be ordered confiscated.
    (Ord. D-292, § 2, 3-16-81)
    (c) This section shall not affect the use of weapons which have legally been approved for such use in areas or as otherwise approved by the Metropolitan Police Department of the City nor shall such prohibit the reasonable use of weapons in the protection of human life or property, including the protection of livestock or farm animals in an Agricultural District.

    The italics are mine.

    It appears to me that any reasonably intelligent person can immediately see that I was:

    1) Protecting human life, not only my own, but that of my neighbors, one of whom I had already protected, and;

    2) Protecting property, namely my neighbor’s dog. I was certain that a warning shot would break off the attack and I sure as hell didn’t want to be in the position of shooting and killing my neighbor’s mutt, even if he is a mean little sucker.

    According to the officer, I should have simply stayed in the house. If I saw the dogs attacking an elderly neighbor or a child, I should have stayed out of it.

    I don’t have the words to express the disgust I feel at how my noble profession has been turned to crap by politically correct anti-gun brainwashing. I don't blame this young copper for this...he doesn't know any better. He's been taught that gunowners are nothing but cop-killers in training, and when a citizen actually USES a gun, even in a situation like this where it was clearly called for, he can't help taking an attitude. In my day any officer, whether he was 21 or 61, would have seen the wisdom of firing a shot harmlessly into the ground as preferable to actually killing a neighbor’s domestic pet when the warning shot would avert that necessity.

    My neighbor, stand-up guy that he is, has offered to pay any fine that I receive (a possible $500).

    The moral of the story is, NEVER involve the government in ANYTHING. Absolutely NOTHING can be gained by it, and any situation is going to be made worse. Don’t help your neighbors, even if they’re elderly, young or helpless. Don’t get involved. Don’t do anything.

    I have a court date in November. I’ll be pleading not guilty.

    And you know what? Stupid son-of-a-***** that I am, if this happens tomorrow I’ll do exactly what I did today. I won’t be worn down or compromise my principles because of the degeneration of our government, at all levels, into a tyrannical circus.

  2. #2
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    Too bad beating the charge couldn't include beating the cop--some sense into his head.

    Save the torn trousers complete with saliva for the court appearance.

  3. #3
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    AND photos of YOUR injuries (if any) related to the bite!

  4. #4
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    Warning shot? No, I aimed at his head but he moved and I missed.. So sorry..
    Good Luck with your court appearance.

  5. #5
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    Hi Harry! (We've met, I'm a Cincy-area firearms-rights-fighter myself.)

    Sorry to read of your experience over there in Carmel. You could always move back here ya know. Right now Cincinnati is spending like $35 million to revamp the Fay Apartments, maybe you'd like a homestead there!

    Think I'd have done the same thing in the situation you found yourself in--well, maybe your story makes me think twice about where the first shot would go, however.

  6. #6
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    Fay Apartments

    35 mil on the FAY APARTMENTS??? That hellhole was a bucket of blood when I was on the job. Putting money into that place is a lot like buying new deck chairs for the Titanic.
    Last edited by Liberty Sanders; 10-15-2010 at 11:05 AM.

  7. #7
    McX
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    yes, let that be a lesson to you, stay inside, let the public be victimized, and call 911 from the safety of your home, let the skilled and knowledgeable professionals handle these matters.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    You have an affirmative defense. The charges should be dropped, otherwise the case will be dismissed. The cop was a ******* moron.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Tomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    You have an affirmative defense. The charges should be dropped, otherwise the case will be dismissed. The cop was a ******* moron.
    Absolutely!

    Once you get that part settled, it might be a good idea to have a bit of a discussion with the higher-ups at the department so they can train their young'uns properly...
    No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: The officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets. -- Edward Abbey

    • • • Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Faciémus!• • •

  10. #10
    Regular Member TN_Mike's Avatar
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    I have only lived in the state for 6 months (and God willing I will be headed back South with in a year) but I have had occasion to be in Carmel 4 times. I do not like to hear this kind of story. It looks like they have at least one cop there who isn't too on the ball.

  11. #11
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    Wow man sorry to hear about ur dumb luck! I live in Lawrence so I dare to say the cops over hear would probably act the same but maybe worst! Please keep us updated on the out come!

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