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Thread: Federal School Zone?

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Federal School Zone?

    Hi to all the Vermont folks. I'm from the MI forum but I had a question that I hoped you might be able to answer.

    Since Vermont doesn't license you to carry a firearm how do you deal with the Fed. School Zone law?

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...2----000-.html

    Paragraph q, sub-paragraph 2
    (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;

    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

    (iii) that is—

    (I) not loaded; and

    (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;


    (iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;

    (v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;

    (vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or

    (vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.
    Both the License To Purchase and the Concealed Pistol License that MI has exempt us from this law per (ii) but I was curious how gun carriers in states that don't have either of these approach this issue.

    Thanks,

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    Bronson:

    If the Firearm has moved in or otherwise affected InterState Commerce, then, you really can not.

    However, IF Vermont passes a Vermont Firearms Freedom Act, then, you can ignore it for Firearms made in Vermont and sold to Vermont Citizen Residents.

    However, IF Vermont goes Firearms Freedom, as have other States, do not be surprised if The Department of Justice files a LawSuit on behalf of The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms Enforcement.

    Vermont WILL have to License, by wit of Brady-compliant Licensure, in order to circumvent 18 U.S.C. 922(q), OR Vermont Citizen Residents have to follow the exceptions listed under 18 U.S.C. 922(q)(2)(B), less 18 U.S.C. 922(q)(2)(2)(ii).

    If the former option is true, then, expect a LawSuit.

    aadvark

    P.S.: It is as 'THEY' say..., ;...[A] LL Firearm-related Laws in Vermont ARE Federal Laws!'
    Last edited by aadvark; 10-15-2010 at 12:58 PM.

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Thanks aadvark. So as it stands right now since Vermont doesn't license firearm possession a Vermont resident who purchases a firearm that has been imported, or has had components imported, into Vermont cannot possess that firearm in a school zone per 18 U.S.C. 922.

    Correct?

    Bronson
    Last edited by Bronson; 10-16-2010 at 02:16 AM.
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    Bronson:

    I am not sure if Vermont has a License or not, BUT I will try to find out.
    In the meantime, go back to my response ot your inquiry on the Alaska Thread.

    aadvark

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    As far as I could find out VT doesn't have a license to purchase or carry. In light of 18 U.S.C. 922 (q)(2) I just don't see unlicensed carry as being very feasible in an urban setting. I don't live in a very big town here in MI but it sometimes seems that I could throw a rock from anyplace I happen to be standing and hit school and I'm inclined to think it's similar in other places.

    Thanks for the info so far.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

  6. #6
    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    Negate need to apply for a license.

    The state can also pass legislation specifically stating all persons not prohibited to possess firearms in VT are considered licensed by the state for the purpose of 18 U.S.C. 922 (q)(2). This would cover residents and non-residents alike.

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    Montana has done that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lockman View Post
    The state can also pass legislation specifically stating all persons not prohibited to possess firearms in VT are considered licensed by the state for the purpose of 18 U.S.C. 922 (q)(2). This would cover residents and non-residents alike.
    Yes, Montana has does this BUT the federal statute also requires that the state has run a background check on the gun carrier as part of the PERMIT requirement!

    BTW I am not objecting to ANY STATE eliminating any/all limitations on the lawful carry, possession, ownership, or concealment by any adult of ANY firearm who is otherwise legal to purchase, own, possess, carry, use the same!

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    Montana is Soverign, under the 10th Amendment of The Constitution of The United States.
    Understandably, Montana most probably does Federal NICS Checks on Firearm Purhcases throughout Montana, however; the same can not really be said for MADE IN MONTANA Firearms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    Montana is Soverign, under the 10th Amendment of The Constitution of The United States.
    Understandably, Montana most probably does Federal NICS Checks on Firearm Purhcases throughout Montana, however; the same can not really be said for MADE IN MONTANA Firearms.
    Please understand that in no way was I suggesting the the current Federal Regulations related to GFSZ's and many other Federal laws are constitutional.

    Your comment above refers to checks done upon firearm purchases from a dealer but Montana has not made illegal the transfering of firearms from one party to another as a gift, inheritance, or private sale so Montana has no way to fully comply with this UNCONSTITUTIONAL Federal requirement and INFRINGEMENT UPON STATES RIGHTS!

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    Joe Sparky:

    I agree 100% with your aforementioned comments.

    Montana is Soverign, and States' Rights SHALL Prevail over Federal UnConstitutional Laws and Mandates!

    aadvark

    P.S.: 9th Amedment reads:
    The Enumeration in the Constitution, of certain Rights, shall not be construed to Deny or Disparage others Retained by the People.

    P.S.: 10th Amendment reads:
    The Powers not Delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor Prohibited by it to the States, are Reserved to the States[,] Respectively, or to the People.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Thanks aadvark. So as it stands right now since Vermont doesn't license firearm possession a Vermont resident who purchases a firearm that has been imported, or has had components imported, into Vermont cannot possess that firearm in a school zone per 18 U.S.C. 922.

    Correct?

    Bronson
    In United States v. Smith the court gave the following instructions to the jury;
    "The court instructed the jury as follows:  “So the government has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the firearm, taking the firearm charge, and the ammunition, taking the ammunition charge, was in commerce.   That doesn't mean that they have to prove Mr. Yanovitch or Mr. Smith carried the items across a state line.   But the government does have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that at some time after the firearm or ammunition was manufactured, up till the time when the person you're considering possessed it, if you find that one or both of them did possess it, that the item, the firearm, or ammunition, or both, were in commerce, which means it went across a state line․”

    In the case there was uncontested evidence that cartridges had moved in interstate commerce because the shell casing sat the scene were manufactured in Arkansas.

    So, I would think one would have to be extremelt careful in buying a pistol which may or may not have moved in interstate commerce. Double check to make sure the weapon has not crossed State lines. Even then the government may say that a part of the gun has moved interstate so one might still be subject to charges. If the government wants to convict the judge will find a way.

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    Those Instructions are Correct for a Federal Case based off of Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(2).
    This is why Vermont needs a Firearm Freedom Act!

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