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Thread: For cops, citizen videos bring increased scrutiny

  1. #1
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    For cops, citizen videos bring increased scrutiny


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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    The key here for officers is to behave professionally when you are treated reasonably. If you do that, you have nothing to fear.

    Notice, the agencies are becoming more "market friendly". The attitude of "help us understand our mistakes so we can improve" is starting to show. They are realizing they no longer have an unchecked monopoly. This is how a free market handles things.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Awesome read. I particularly laughed at how stupid it made some cops look. What I mean is that if they simply follow the laws as best as they know them, and act in good faith of RAS and PC, there is nothing new to train about. The only thing they could possibly have to "train" about is that they better stop screwing with people unless they want to go to prison.

    The thing that amazes me is in my experience how many cops will still act feloniously on camera.
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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Notice, the agencies are becoming more "market friendly". The attitude of "help us understand our mistakes so we can improve" is starting to show. They are realizing they no longer have an unchecked monopoly. This is how a free market handles things.
    This is true to an extent in terms of the majority of police departments, but it falls flat on its face when management of a department and city are willing to allow repeat felony actions by police. The thin blue line is a close knit community which doesn't like to interdepartmentally take out its trash, even when their agency has the ability to step in and put a stop to unlawful actions by another agency. I have found that this can hold true nation wide, save a few free states like Arizona, on any level, from the city or town all the way up to the Feds.

    The only options can become expensive law suits which tend not to work, black panther style self defense which tends to needlessly cost lives and scare up new laws. The best option ends up being having politicians removed from office, replacing them with spined politicians who take their oath seriously enough to remove felons who are employed as police officers or police management, and there are a few Michigan cities which I think could use exactly this.
    Last edited by Michigander; 10-15-2010 at 12:29 PM.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  5. #5
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    I hope you guys don't miss the sub-text of the LEO community...trying to outlaw video and audio taping during police interactions.

    Sounds like some states are working to try and stop the public from taping LEOs. That's the real scary part of the article.

    And why PDs think this is something new is beyond me. People have been taping LEO encounters for decades. The difference I suppose is how fast it can go viral.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    Due to my long standing hard core constitutional political background I have made enemies around here calling out the corrupt. I have cameras in and around my home and most are hidden. I have made arraignments to have the recordings sent immediately off site so they can not be destroyed by any potential invaders, be it criminal or official criminals. Many sites like supercircuits.com sell radio wireless methods of transmitting that recording off property. They can't identify where that recording is broadcasted to, only that it was broadcasted.

    This can be done mobile to mobile in cases of someone being pulled over and their car impounded, the whole times the car is in impound they can destroy evidence or claim someone stole it. I suggest those who are curious about all this, might get into Amateur radio and learn by doing. It's easy and loads of fun becoming a Ham/Amateur radio operator. You will quickly learn the technology, and how to make it work.

    http://www.supercircuits.com/Wireles...o-Links/MVL10D

    .................................................. .................................................. ................................
    below is a pair receiver and transmitter

    http://www.supercircuits.com/Wireles...Links/AVX900T4

    http://www.supercircuits.com/Wireles...ivers/AVX900R1

    " Power output is a very strong 500 milliwatts for range of up to 1 mile with standard rubber whip antennas! Even longer ranges are attainable with the optional Yagi receiver antenna....."

    remember if you get one of these get one that has a detachable antenna so you have the option of adding a better antenna to greatly increase range from cameras to recorder.

    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ....


    http://www.arrl.org/getting-your-technician-license


    http://www.supercircuits.com/



    http://www.supercircuits.com/Wireless-Security/ <<< wireless video




    Last edited by Bailenforcer; 10-15-2010 at 12:54 PM. Reason: forgot to add links
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailenforcer View Post
    Due to my long standing hard core constitutional political background I have made enemies around here calling out the corrupt. I have cameras in and around my home and most are hidden. I have made arraignments to have the recordings sent immediately off site so they can not be destroyed by any potential invaders, be it criminal or official criminals. Many sites like supercircuits.com sell radio wireless methods of transmitting that recording off property. They can't identify where that recording is broadcasted to, only that it was broadcasted.
    RF jamming?

    If they plan to break one law would a silly thing like FCC regulations stop them?
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    Rf Jamming is insanely expensive to do despite rumors to the contrary. With more than A QUARTER MILLION potential frequencies to jam they would have to guess what to jam. Jamming is not universal. It is specific to a frequency. With 6.25 Khz separation that greatly increases the channels or frequencies to jam. if it get to illegal jamming then we have a huge case for official corruption. And if it gets that bad we already have the makings of a civil war, if not all out war. For a local Police agency to engage in such a Federal offense with impunity things would be so bad we would have mass civil unrest before then.

    Somehow I don't see the Police having a mobile jamming truck following each police car at a few Million dollars a piece.

    http://www.sesp.com/MilitaryConvoyProtection.asp


    Jamming is possible at great costs, and still unreliable. Frequency hoping radio technology defeats jamming.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequen...pread_spectrum


    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    RF jamming?

    If they plan to break one law would a silly thing like FCC regulations stop them?
    Last edited by Bailenforcer; 10-15-2010 at 01:44 PM.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailenforcer View Post
    Rf Jamming is insanely expensive to do despite rumors to the contrary. With more than A QUARTER MILLION potential frequencies to jam they would have to guess what to jam. Jamming is not universal. It is specific to a frequency. With 6.25 Khz separation that greatly increases the channels or frequencies to jam. if it get to illegal jamming then we have a huge case for official corruption. And if it gets that bad we already have the makings of a civil war, if not all out war. For a local Police agency to engage in such a Federal offense with impunity things would be so bad we would have mass civil unrest before then.

    Somehow I don't see the Police having a mobile jamming truck following each police car at a few Million dollars a piece.

    http://www.sesp.com/MilitaryConvoyProtection.asp


    Jamming is possible at great costs, and still unreliable. Frequency hoping radio technology defeats jamming.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequen...pread_spectrum
    Power lines?

    Snip snip. Got UPS AND Generator?
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  10. #10
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Power lines?

    Snip snip. Got UPS AND Generator?
    Naw, think BIGGER! EMP!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse

    BZZZZZZ.....

  11. #11
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    Naw, think BIGGER! EMP!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse

    BZZZZZZ.....
    Jericho? LOL
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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    you guys are all NUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jericho??? c'mon people! that could never happen to us the most law abiding sector of society! why all those nasty terrorist cells have been rounded up, domestic terrorism is a thing of the very long distance past, and our politicians and federal state county and local law enforcement have things well in hand.

    no country in their right mind would think of causeing us the holy police force of the world any harm. i have first hand proof that the so called insurgents want to give all the bullets back to our soldiers!!!!!!!!!! hell one of them even gave me a bullet personally!

    and in the spirit of fair trade we gave him about 200 back in trade for him or his friends to do with as they wished! now in an market thats a damn fine return!

    so stop with all your stupid conspiracy theorys! the goverment dosen't get rid of all your guns! they just want you to give them to people who know how to use them! our goverment cops, state county and city law enforcement only want to protect us and keep the children safe form those bad guns!

    the goverment is only trying to make things easier for our law enforcement! how are they supposed to tell a bad guy with a gun from a good guy with a gun??? well thats easy! ban all guns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how easy is that! with the stroke of a pen and a vote the problem would be solved!

    now to you "what iffers" out there,,what if a good guy goes and gets a gun to protect his family and kids from all those nasty criminals who just wont fall in line with the law?? well thats easy! since all guns were/are banned then he would be by default a bad guy, hence a criminal and it would be a free to fire incident!

    infallible logic there! how easy, our law enforcement wouln't even have to think about wether it was a good guy/bad guy, since all people with guns are bad guys/girls!!!!

    finally a law that makes sense!

    so stop with your stupid sad theories about "gun control" or "eves dropping" and just find something else to do besides waste everyones time with silly, obamas gonna take yor guns crap!

    with our military being the worlds police force and all the good will that brings us we wont have any issue with people wanting to do bad things here in america.

    with a complete and total ban on those nasty guns we won't be able to shoot anyone anymore! and with our cops finally able to police without haveing to worry about shooting the wrong person this will finally be the happiest place on earth!

  13. #13
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    I am confused. This post I quoted is confusing, is this some kind of humor, or are you having a bad day? I noticed you went off in another thread with black helicopter insults.


    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    you guys are all NUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jericho??? c'mon people! that could never happen to us the most law abiding sector of society! why all those nasty terrorist cells have been rounded up, domestic terrorism is a thing of the very long distance past, and our politicians and federal state county and local law enforcement have things well in hand.

    no country in their right mind would think of causeing us the holy police force of the world any harm. i have first hand proof that the so called insurgents want to give all the bullets back to our soldiers!!!!!!!!!! hell one of them even gave me a bullet personally!

    and in the spirit of fair trade we gave him about 200 back in trade for him or his friends to do with as they wished! now in an market thats a damn fine return!

    so stop with all your stupid conspiracy theorys! the goverment dosen't get rid of all your guns! they just want you to give them to people who know how to use them! our goverment cops, state county and city law enforcement only want to protect us and keep the children safe form those bad guns!

    the goverment is only trying to make things easier for our law enforcement! how are they supposed to tell a bad guy with a gun from a good guy with a gun??? well thats easy! ban all guns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how easy is that! with the stroke of a pen and a vote the problem would be solved!

    now to you "what iffers" out there,,what if a good guy goes and gets a gun to protect his family and kids from all those nasty criminals who just wont fall in line with the law?? well thats easy! since all guns were/are banned then he would be by default a bad guy, hence a criminal and it would be a free to fire incident!

    infallible logic there! how easy, our law enforcement wouln't even have to think about wether it was a good guy/bad guy, since all people with guns are bad guys/girls!!!!

    finally a law that makes sense!

    so stop with your stupid sad theories about "gun control" or "eves dropping" and just find something else to do besides waste everyones time with silly, obamas gonna take yor guns crap!

    with our military being the worlds police force and all the good will that brings us we wont have any issue with people wanting to do bad things here in america.

    with a complete and total ban on those nasty guns we won't be able to shoot anyone anymore! and with our cops finally able to police without haveing to worry about shooting the wrong person this will finally be the happiest place on earth!
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailenforcer View Post
    is this some kind of humor
    I believe it would fall under the heading of sarcasm.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    I believe it would fall under the heading of sarcasm.

    Bronson
    indeed, good call bronson!

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    I read the print version today. Not sure if it is identical.

    Something conspicuous by its absence was the idea from police that if they are respecting citizen and suspect rights as given in law, it matters little whether they are being recorded.

    The closest approach was a police comment to the effect that cops should assume they are being recorded. Huh!?! Don't do anything wrong because you might be recorded? WTF? Why not just demand respect for rights regardless of the possibility of recording, the recording business will take care of itself. In fact, suddenly the police trainers can say, "The video will prove you followed the law."

    Of course, it may just be that the editor scratched out those quotes.

    The union official comment was telling. He did not say, "We welcome the prevalence of recorders. It helps us get rid of bad cops and correc the borderline cops." His concern was that something bad might happen. A cop might hesitate in a split second decision scenario or something along those lines.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    His concern was that something bad might happen. A cop might hesitate in a split second decision scenario or something along those lines.
    An incredibly bogus misconception in my opinion.

    Most long timers in the non free states of this forum such as Michigan, or Virgina which is a state where you earned the title citizen, we've experienced our fair shares of police misconduct, and we've minimally experienced some very tense situations in that regard. In terms of any dangerous situation, when things go real far south, I think many here have experienced that you can lose sight of the fact you're recording someone, or that they're recording you. When fight or flight adrenalin pumps through your system, a recording becomes a side issue. You will possibly know in the back of your head to keep the recorder going, but the more potentially deadly the situation, the less the recording means until it's all over.

    If a cop can't handle being recorded for fear of hesitation, that cop should have failed the psyche test, and should at best be given rubber gun duties for the duration of their employment as a public servant.
    Last edited by Michigander; 10-17-2010 at 11:00 PM.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  18. #18
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    Naw, think BIGGER! EMP!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse

    BZZZZZZ.....

    it would take out the black helicopters also,,,,,

  19. #19
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Virginia not a state!

    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    or Virgina which is a state
    Actually, Virginia isn't a state. It's not one of the 46 states in the United States.

    Think I'm being picky, going talk to people in Kentucky, Virgina, Penn., or Mass.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    wait a minute Are you calling the President a liar? he said there is 57 states.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws



    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Actually, Virginia isn't a state. It's not one of the 46 states in the United States.

    Think I'm being picky, going talk to people in Kentucky, Virgina, Penn., or Mass.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  21. #21
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    Recording devices are great when cops know they are being used, for example wiretaps. A recording device is bad when law abiding citizen use them to keep cops honest. That is my point of view after being deposed on this subject and others for several hours last week.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    Some states allow one party consent to recordings. So if I consent I can record all my conversations. Sadly Michigan does not recognize my right to protect myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    Recording devices are great when cops know they are being used, for example wiretaps. A recording device is bad when law abiding citizen use them to keep cops honest. That is my point of view after being deposed on this subject and others for several hours last week.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  23. #23
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailenforcer View Post
    Some states allow one party consent to recordings. So if I consent I can record all my conversations. Sadly Michigan does not recognize my right to protect myself.
    Umm, Michigan is a single party consent state...
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  24. #24
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    Many web sites refer to Michigan as a two paty consent State. In reality, there is a court ruling that makes it one party. Also, when it comes to interactions with LEOs, this does not even apply because your interactions with LEOs are almost always in public where no expectation of privacy exists.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasha601 View Post
    Many web sites refer to Michigan as a two paty consent State. In reality, there is a court ruling that makes it one party. Also, when it comes to interactions with LEOs, this does not even apply because your interactions with LEOs are almost always in public where no expectation of privacy exists.
    Michigan Wiretapping Law

    Michigan law makes it a crime to "use[] any device to eavesdrop upon [a] conversation without the consent of all parties." Mich. Comp. Laws 750.539c. This looks like an "all party consent" law, but one Michigan Court has ruled that a participant in a private conversation may record it without violating the statute because the statutory term "eavesdrop" refers only to overhearing or recording the private conversations of others. See Sullivan v. Gray, 342 N.W. 2d 58, 60-61 (Mich. Ct. App. 1982). The Michigan Supreme Court has not yet ruled on this question, so it is not clear whether you may record a conversation or phone call if you are a party to it. But, if you plan on recording a conversation to which you are not a party, you must get the consent of all parties to that conversation. In addition, if you intend to record conversations involving people located in more than one state, you should play it safe and get the consent of all parties.

    Michigan law also makes it a crime to "install, place, or use in any private place, without the consent of the person or persons entitled to privacy in that place, any device for observing, recording, transmitting, photographing, or eavesdropping upon the sounds or events in that place." Mich. Comp. Laws 750.539d. The law defines a "private place" as a place where a person "may reasonably expect to be safe from casual or hostile intrusion or surveillance but does not include a place to which the public or substantial group of the public has access." Mich. Comp. Laws 750.539a. You should always avoid these kinds of surveillance tactics.

    Michigan law also prohibits you from "us[ing] or divulg[ing] any information which [you] know[] or reasonably should know was obtained in violation of the other wiretapping laws. Mich. Comp. Laws 750.539e. To the extent this statute forbids you from publishing truthful information on a matter of public concern provided to you by a third-party (when you had no role in the wiretapping), it is probably unconstitutional. See Bartnicki v. Vopper, 532 U.S. 514 (2001).
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