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Huffington Post in regards to Judge Jon M. Counsell

Rbwhanson

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
45
Location
Hartford, WI
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-sugarmann/activist-judge-rules-agai_b_764075.html


FTA:

Wisconsin, home to John Kerry's beloved Lambert Field, is also one of two states in America that bans the carrying of concealed weapons (the other is Illinois).

This week Wisconsin Circuit Court Judge Jon M. Counsell issued an opinion overturning the state's ban on concealed carry that challenges Senator Kerry's infamous gaffe for uninformed audacity.

Drawing supposed authority from the U.S. Supreme Court's Heller and McDonald decisions--which found only a Second Amendment right to keep a handgun in the home for self-protection--Counsell ruled that the state's ban on carrying concealed handguns in public was overly broad and therefore unconstitutional.

Why do you need to carry a handgun in the Badger State? One answer is apparently bears and cougars. In his opinion Counsell frets that the ban on concealed carry, "Prohibits the logger, hiker, cross country skier and other outdoors person from keeping his weapon out of plain sight, but available, in the event of a wolf, bear or other wild animal attack." This statement is then trailed by the following footnote citing Wikipedia. And no, I am not making this up.

For fatal cougar attacks, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_cougar_attacks_in_North_America.
For fatal cougar attacks, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America .
For a recent bear attack in our neighbor state of Michigan, see http://www.petoskeynews.com/news/pnr-hunterfortunate-to-survive-be-101210,0,5853596.story.


What's worse? Citing Wikipedia links in your, and let's remember this--actual court decision--or, as evidenced by Counsell's citing "cougar attacks" twice in the text at the expense of "bear attack," not even bothering to cite them accurately.

Counsell then goes on to offer the following absolute statement:

Despite the varying concealed carry laws allowing "ordinary" citizens to carry concealed weapons in 48 States, there have been no shootouts in town squares, no mass vigilante shootings, or other violent outbreaks attributable to allowed concealed carry.
Now, I haven't gone to the Google machine to check Wikipedia recently (at least until this week), but my organization, the Violence Policy Center, has been tracking--through news reports, since such information is secret in virtually all CCW states--just these types of killings by concealed handgun permit holders as part of our Concealed Carry Killers project.

According to Concealed Carry Killers' September update, since May 2007 concealed handgun permit holders have killed at least 202 individuals. And no, they aren't good guys killing criminals in the name of truth, justice, and the American way. Of the 122 incidents in 27 states that resulted in the 202 deaths, in more than half (66 incidents) the concealed handgun permit holder has already been convicted, committed suicide after the incident, or was killed in the incident. Of the 56 cases still pending, the vast majority (46) of concealed handgun permit holders have been charged with criminal homicide, two were deemed incompetent to stand trial, two incidents were unintentional shootings, and six incidents are still under investigation.

And where do these killings occur? The exact places Judge Counsell so confidently promises they never do: parking lots, roadways, businesses, homes, and numerous others. And the "mass vigilante shootings" Judge Counsell tells us never occur? Well, the September Concealed Carry Killers update tallies at least 16 mass shootings (three or more victims) committed by concealed handgun permit holders claiming the lives of 65 victims. This doesn't include a CCW mass shooting that we've only recently confirmed: the August 2010 attack at a Connecticut beer distributor in which concealed handgun permit holder Omar Thornton used his Ruger pistol in the murder of eight of his co-workers before taking his own life.

According to Judge Counsell's favored reference source, judicial activism is described as a:

judicial ruling suspected of being based on personal or political considerations rather than on existing law.
But I guess in Judge Counsell's case, it's not really necessary to bother checking Wikipedia to answer that question.





HP never ceases to make me roll my eyes.....
 

Canard

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
148
Location
SE, Wisconsin, USA
Proof this article is worthless

Here are some quick contrived statics based on these “murdering rates” of CCW holders.
*
First, some numbers
202 murders by CCW holders during this time period
5,000,000 permit holders according to http://www.legallyarmed.com/ccw_statistics.htm
*************** (this is missing many states included constitutional carry so this number is very low)
25,000 – number of murders overall during this time period
245,267,292 US population over 14 yrs old per 2009 US Census
*
.00404% of CCW holders commit murder
.01019% of the general population commits murder
.0104% of non-permit holders commit murder
These assume 1 murderer per murder which is not correct but will get us a general idea.
*
According to these stats the general population is 2.5 times more likely to commit murder than a ccw permit holder
Sooo…..this data suggest issuing more permits will reduce the murder rate
Orrrr…..people who don’t have a ccw permit are more likely to commit murder the than general population. Hmmmmm
 

The Don

Guest
Joined
May 28, 2010
Messages
397
Location
in your pants
Math is fun!

Here are some quick contrived statics based on these “murdering rates” of CCW holders.
*
First, some numbers
202 murders by CCW holders during this time period
5,000,000 permit holders according to http://www.legallyarmed.com/ccw_statistics.htm
*************** (this is missing many states included constitutional carry so this number is very low)
25,000 – number of murders overall during this time period
245,267,292 US population over 14 yrs old per 2009 US Census
*
.00404% of CCW holders commit murder
.01019% of the general population commits murder
.0104% of non-permit holders commit murder
These assume 1 murderer per murder which is not correct but will get us a general idea.
*
According to these stats the general population is 2.5 times more likely to commit murder than a ccw permit holder
Sooo…..this data suggest issuing more permits will reduce the murder rate
Orrrr…..people who don’t have a ccw permit are more likely to commit murder the than general population. Hmmmmm

thanks for putting that together.
 

johnny amish

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
1,024
Location
High altitude of Vernon County, ,
According to these stats the general population is 2.5 times more likely to commit murder than a ccw permit holder
Sooo…..this data suggest issuing more permits will reduce the murder rate
Orrrr…..people who don’t have a ccw permit are more likely to commit murder the than general population. Hmmmmm

Geeez, now what are we supose to think? Are we the good guy, or the bad guy?
 

anmut

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Messages
875
Location
Stevens Point WI, ,
Blah blah blah - if you take anything seriously out of the Huffington Post then you're probably a fan of Hilary Clinton's farts as well.
 

ayce2

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
89
Location
Greater Fox cities area
Good or Bad?

Geeez, now what are we supose to think? Are we the good guy, or the bad guy?

reminds me of an old joke... asked of an accountant ' WHAT IS 2+2?" Close the door , pull the shade "What do you need it to be?"

We are what we are, no matter what others think. Without meeting personally anyone on this blog I have a good idea who you are by what you post. I believe that all who post regularly I respect, wether I like the majority of their posts or not. There is a certain honesty in who they are. I also appreciate the calmer tone of the last days.
 

Flipper

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
1,140
Location
, Wisconsin, USA
Blah blah blah - if you take anything seriously out of the Huffington Post then you're probably a fan of Hilary Clinton's farts as well.

That Silverman guy that wrote the article is executive director of the Violence Policy Center, a tenticle of the Joyce Foundation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_Policy_Center

The Joyce Foundation considers Wisconsin to be Chicago's northern providence, and as such has spent a lot of money trying to get Chicago styled gun laws inflicited on Wisconsin citizens.

Little suprise then that a big time Washington DC lobbyist would be concerned about a court case in a small Wisconsin county. They are starting to be become afraid....
 
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qball54208

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
288
Location
GREEN BAY, Wisconsin, USA
What an utter disgrace! A Judge citing WIKI? How (IMHO) STUPID! There is hardly any corroborating information there to support any facts, WIKI is a conglomeration of compiled info, unsupported by ANY individual who wishes to post, moderated by anyone who refutes it's truth.
If you use WIKI as a credible source of information, you're lazy, uneducated and wrong!
All be it useful as a GUIDE nothing more.
The Judges opinion wrote with the information cited from WIKI should be thrashed, he should be hanging his head in shame, what a dis-service (his references using WIKI) to the 2A.
I wana PUKE anytime I see an individual use WIKI it literally turns my stomach!
 

Doug Huffman

Banned
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,180
Location
Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin,
I don't think that you can buy a NEW full-flush toilet any more.

When I bought my 30 y.o. home I was very concerned that it has an Ifö, an early European low volume commode. As it turns out, the Ifö has handled anything that I've been able to put in it.

We added a half-bath and I tried to get another one but discovered that models like I have are out of production, quite expensive, and use an European off-set from the wall and not the American off-set. So I bought a bunch of spare parts and a stupid modern American no-flush for the little 'powder room'.

Many Islanders have real toilets stashed away. I just saw a NY news article of NYC mandating dual-flush toilets, with 1/2 gallon No. 1 flushes and one gallon No. 2 flushes. We use the "If it's yellow it's mellow" rule to minimize having our holding tank pumped (like on a boat or RV but 2k gallons/$100). And a hot tub, rather than a bath-tub, that I can drain to the yard and not to the holding tank.

I'm trying to halve our water+sewer bill, from $600/year ($100 pump-out/60 days). And I horde Edison lightbulbs.
 
Last edited:

Canard

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
148
Location
SE, Wisconsin, USA
What an utter disgrace! A Judge citing WIKI? How (IMHO) STUPID! There is hardly any corroborating information there to support any facts, WIKI is a conglomeration of compiled info, unsupported by ANY individual who wishes to post, moderated by anyone who refutes it's truth.
If you use WIKI as a credible source of information, you're lazy, uneducated and wrong!
All be it useful as a GUIDE nothing more.
The Judges opinion wrote with the information cited from WIKI should be thrashed, he should be hanging his head in shame, what a dis-service (his references using WIKI) to the 2A.
I wana PUKE anytime I see an individual use WIKI it literally turns my stomach!

I generally agree with you on the Wiki thing but if you do your research while reading Wiki you can determine if the particular subject matter is valid or not. For example, if you Wiki concealed carry every fact is footnoted and verifiable. One would hope when reading a wiki page that the footnotes ae reviewed as being valid, I know I do. I do find many an interesting wiki page without references that seems right but I just can't trust without the backup.

To the point that this judge used wiki is definitely disappointing. Certainly his reference could already be invalid should someone have updated anything on those pages. He should have reviewed the references noted in the page and noted those in his paper should they have been legitimate.
 
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