Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: A single voice in a crowd...

  1. #1
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448

    A single voice in a crowd...

    http://www.schneier.com/blog/archive...g_a_singl.html

    I wonder if "wiretapping" laws apply here. In this, neither party is consenting. Then again, both parties are in a "public place".

    Any of our demigods care to comment or debate?
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    City
    Posts
    1,077
    Maybe some day we can have a Minority Report so we can catch them before they commit crimes, like incorrect thinking. No wiretapping needed there.

    The loss of our freedoms is in free fall.



    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0181689/


    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    http://www.schneier.com/blog/archive...g_a_singl.html

    I wonder if "wiretapping" laws apply here. In this, neither party is consenting. Then again, both parties are in a "public place".

    Any of our demigods care to comment or debate?
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  3. #3
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chesterfield Township, MI
    Posts
    1,137
    this is a silly thread, how about we get back on topic. all this conspiracy theory is garbage. there are no black helicopters hovering over our house stealing our thoughts grow up.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    City
    Posts
    1,077
    Hmmm I thought the Federal Government finally admitted the black helicopters existed and belonged to the air wing of the Night Stalkers. They also admitted they did all those accused flights over small towns as "training".
    Instead of making factually incorrect insults with hair brained thought stealing comments designed to belittle someone which I might remind you violates forum rules, maybe use a more adult response.

    So maybe we can now dispense with that tired old Liberal insult of black helicopters since we now have confirmation they did as accused and terrorized small towns throughout the United States with unannounced midnight operations scaring the hell out of citizens with their mock invasions.

    Also included in the links is one of their mock invasions gone wrong when one of these idiots was shot dead by a Police officer when he was pulled over armed with M-4 rifles wearing plain clothes, and one of the idiots went for the rifle and none of them provided explanation as to why they were there and who they were and of course what they were doing.

    Also another note, these idiots caused an air disaster in one small town when the tail rotor of the "black" helicopter hit a telephone pole in the middle of town and crashed.

    Why there was no prosecutions for this outrageous behavior is obvious, the Federal Government sees us as the enemy. There were a number of law suits filed by towns, and people who were terrorized by these secret operations in small towns and cities without letting the people know, most as I read were settled out of court with gag orders. "SHHHH we can't tell the people what idiots we are"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/160th_S...ited_States%29

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxeiG8IGN1c

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDvN0g8cDaU

    I never heard of thought stealing, that's a new one on me.


    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    this is a silly thread, how about we get back on topic. all this conspiracy theory is garbage. there are no black helicopters hovering over our house stealing our thoughts grow up.
    Last edited by Bailenforcer; 10-16-2010 at 12:52 PM.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  5. #5
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chesterfield Township, MI
    Posts
    1,137
    huh, yes i know all about the SOAR they have been around for a while and were the unit in blackhawk down, but it dosen't mean that this thread isn't still silly, and no there are not helicopters used by the US stealing anything this is the same stuff the militia uses as BS prop to recruit. and yes there are black helicopters but they don't use them for the things you say, i have ridden in many of them! but in all actuallity its more a really dark green than black in any case. and we don't have them doing mock takeovers of U.S. cities!

    yes the army, marines, do indeed do mock take overs. and yes they bring in civilians to do it sometimes but they don't just go out and raid US cities. a lot of the time its at good old ft. irwin.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    City
    Posts
    1,077
    Once again you are creating things here.

    Q never said anything about taking over. He asked about wiretapping laws related to this eavesdropping. PERIOD!

    Now again here you go twisting things, dark green black it makes no difference nearly 100% of people see it as black when asked. So if it look black then for the sake of argument it is black. We can argue that it's one molecule from black so it isn't all week along. But what would this do?

    I noticed you avoided the Police officer shooting of those morons and still maintain they don't do what they actually did. It's not what I say they did, it is what they IN FACT DID and admitted to. It is in fact that a cop killed one who was doing exactly what I said and the article said they did and they settled out of court to avoid more media scrutiny. You are now saying the facts are all imagined, but they in FACT did do this as I mentioned. Do you home work before you make false assertions.

    Now the Militia? Oh please that tired old excuse died back in 1995. It is also a fact that most of the Militia stories of this activity was provided through Psy-ops disinformation. And if you claim to know what you know you then know as I DO there is and was in the 80's and 90's an active Psy-OPS program to discredit the different Militia groups. I have no use for the Militia silliness, but the Government has acted as your enemy and it will always be until the American people take it back. Just because you served in the Government doesn't white wash them.

    Now once again let's quit the not so veiled insults.


    I am Back to bed... Gute Nacht

    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    huh, yes i know all about the SOAR they have been around for a while and were the unit in blackhawk down, but it dosen't mean that this thread isn't still silly, and no there are not helicopters used by the US stealing anything this is the same stuff the militia uses as BS prop to recruit. and yes there are black helicopters but they don't use them for the things you say, i have ridden in many of them! but in all actuallity its more a really dark green than black in any case. and we don't have them doing mock takeovers of U.S. cities!

    yes the army, marines, do indeed do mock take overs. and yes they bring in civilians to do it sometimes but they don't just go out and raid US cities. a lot of the time its at good old ft. irwin.
    Last edited by Bailenforcer; 10-17-2010 at 03:41 AM.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  7. #7
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chesterfield Township, MI
    Posts
    1,137

  8. #8
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chesterfield Township, MI
    Posts
    1,137
    i would like to apologise to anyone that i may have insulted, or angered by my posts here in this thread. it was a knee jerk response to what i thought at the time was a poor thread.

    yes this technology could be just as easily be used for illegal uses, and could in fact cause more harm than good. just like other helpful technolgy, GPS, bio-metric data cards, nation wide id cards.

    with great power comes great responseibillity, just because that line was in a movie dosen't make it any less true.

    so to anyone i caused to feel belittled, or insulted that was not my intent. it was an emotional response to what should have been an intelligent debate of the facts.

    shaun

  9. #9
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448
    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    yes this technology could be just as easily be used for illegal uses, and could in fact cause more harm than good. just like other helpful technolgy, GPS, bio-metric data cards, nation wide id cards.

    with great power comes great responseibillity, just because that line was in a movie dosen't make it any less true.
    I think our government, esp. at the national level, has shown time and time again that it is willing to abuse technology to spy on people, illegally if need be. Recall the NSA wiretap program?

    I wouldn't put it past our government to put the ears on to two citizens in the crowd they THINK has ties to Terrorism (or the opposing political party, remember Watergate?)

    Yes, with great power cones great responsibility. I don't trust our national government with it.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    City
    Posts
    1,077
    +1

    The NSA wiretapping program has grown exponentially. Michigan has the most wiretaps of any state.

    Legally contrary to popular myth a warrant is only required on PSTN conversations, and cell phones, internet and VOIP call scan be wire tapped without a warrant. Now in many cases they will get a warrant (usually after evidence is discovered) as to avoid a legal challenge that might alert the public that wiretapping can be done warrantless.

    PSTN = Public Switched Telephone Network.

    I don't claim to know much but after 32 years in the telephone industry and working in house at a central office I have seen many many wire tap orders. During most of that time I was also Licensed by the Michigan State Police and ran a Detective agency. During this time I also was heavily involved in electronic surveillance counter measure and met G. Gordon Liddy and for a few years talked with him on the subject and compared note countless times. Even though I have Philosophical differences with his mindset, I will admit he is not only interesting, but extremely intelligent far beyond his public persona. A great guy to have coffee with and talk shop.

    But always remember this, and I will probably hear from the Computer geek self proclaimed experts on how encryption conquers all. It won't it never has and all encryption has been broken and will be broken in due time. If man can create it man can break it. I love how the Geeks claim it can't be broken then when asked why there's always new and improved encryption algorithms they all have differing answers. Fact is the reason encryption is being improved is to keep the code breakers at bay. Those who write encryption all say the same thing, the constant war to improve is because the encryption eventually gets broken and so there is this never ending battle to keep rolling the code and improving it to keep the crackers, and code breakers trailing behind.

    There is only one way, face to face with plenty of surrounding white noise (wind ) to scramble electronic means.

    I tell everyone the same thing as I have for almost 32 years ... if it's that sensitive of information you should NEVER transmit it over any electronic medium ever. Fact to face in the middle of a windy field is the best place. Wind = white or pink noise which causes problems with electronic surveillance.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I think our government, esp. at the national level, has shown time and time again that it is willing to abuse technology to spy on people, illegally if need be. Recall the NSA wiretap program?

    I wouldn't put it past our government to put the ears on to two citizens in the crowd they THINK has ties to Terrorism (or the opposing political party, remember Watergate?)

    Yes, with great power cones great responsibility. I don't trust our national government with it.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    City
    Posts
    1,077
    There were facts and some humor but you chose to ignore the facts and insult people.

    We all have bad days myself included we move on and learn from them...

    I am sure apologies are accepted.

    Maybe we need to get back to a Moral code we once had about 250 years ago. Then all this surveillance of my brothers and sisters under the false assumption of guilt, and guise to protect us from Boogy men Goat herders BS, while nearly 90% of the surveillance is done on AMERICANS not foreigners. I detest this Police State mentality and I dare call it TREASON. Because this country is by for and OF the people and the People should be the Government and not some Nazi style Police State. And in my view anyone who suspects the American people as guilty till proven innocent are in fact traitors. Call me simple, But I have been in that arena too long to be fooled by by the lies. We do not need to treat every American as a danger to this REPUBLIC.


    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    i would like to apologise to anyone that i may have insulted, or angered by my posts here in this thread. it was a knee jerk response to what i thought at the time was a poor thread.

    yes this technology could be just as easily be used for illegal uses, and could in fact cause more harm than good. just like other helpful technolgy, GPS, bio-metric data cards, nation wide id cards.

    with great power comes great responseibillity, just because that line was in a movie dosen't make it any less true.

    so to anyone i caused to feel belittled, or insulted that was not my intent. it was an emotional response to what should have been an intelligent debate of the facts.

    shaun
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •