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New Park Rule.

stainless1911

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Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
I would like to see the cite for display as well.

Beerme, the only reason I don't know the exact wording on the lease, is because I moved in here 10 years ago, and at the time, being my first home, and young, I left those things up to my parents. I asked my mom tonight if she could dig up the original lease agreement, so I could go over it again.
 

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
Question is: is this rule against your 2A rights or the constitution of the state of michigan, if so it makes that part of the contract void and null. While we have the right to own, possess and carry weapons, you are well aware we can OC becasue there is NO MICHIGAN LAW against it. So by defult its legal. (my interpetation of OCing)

Let's say for the sake of argument, that I did not have my CPL, considering that I could not conceal, and I couldn't OC to get to my car to put the gun into transport mode, and couldn't CC or OC to enter or leave the park where I am allowed to OC, then this rule would absolutely be against the Michigan and US constitution and law.

BTW, losing this overgrown tent city, er, mobile home park, wouldn't be so terrible, there is too much favoritism and politics going ion here. Ever since these managers took over a couple years ago, the place has really took a $#!+. I have had to spend many nights sleeping in my car off site, or at my parents house, or on the living room floor trying to get away from the drunken stupidity at all hours. I have complained and called the police numerous times, but to no avail. I now plan my waking and resting around the neighbors alcoholism. Not to menyion the drug houses, occasional pedophile, sex offenders and the stalkers that have lived in here. I've seen people stabbed, and hit with bats around here, the place looks peaceful from the outside, but don't let the paint and flowers fool you.

If I became injured by, either a dog, or a criminal, and would have otherwise been armed, or if I am evicted for OC within my home, then do I have the right to sue?
 

NHCGRPR45

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
1,131
Location
Chesterfield Township, MI
look, and pay attention. first its private property, so even if you win the argument say it goes all the way to the supreme court of the united states and that court says you can carry however you want, you still loose. they will not renew the lease/contract!! you loose, they win period!

we all have to pick and choose which battles we fight, sometimes its very distasteful to have to loose a battle or several to ultimately win the war!. you could win this battle but you will 100% loose the war. they will either say that they are not going to renew the lease/contract and you leave. or they win and they kick you out sooner. either way your gone.

so this is what you can do. cover it up when going to or from your trailer, or mowing your grass or anything outside your trailer. when you leave the trailer park property uncover it.

if someone here tries to tell you to force the issue, then he is no friend to you or anyone who OC's.

it the same if you force the issue at a business that dosen't allow people to carry in their store. if they don't want you in with a gun then you can't come in with a gun!
and if you do then you should be charged with tresspass!

the same unfortunately applies here, not the tresspass part, just the private property part. so unless you really just don't care about haveing to move, by either selling the trailer or takeing it with you then go ahead and push it. but if you can't afford the move then bite your tounge, and cover the gun up while on park property.

sometimes you have to fight, royal oak was one such case. fighting private property rights where you live not so much.

and don't forget that you have the waterford school issue your dealing with, which i said i would help you with. which many have said they are on board for. don't screw that up with a fight you don't need right now, especially a fight that can be so easily put off till later!

keep your house in order and pass this battle off for now. and try not to pay attention to bad advice, no matter where it comes from, if you just keep on OC against the park policy you give all of us a bad name who OC. and a large part of that blame can fall on those who encouraged you also! it might suck to have to cover it up for now and i will gladly give you a good pancake holster for you to use for a while so you can CC eaiser.
but this is a poor time to pick a fight with the trailer park.

so let the park win this battle, and we can maybe win the war latter.
shaun
 

stainless1911

Banned
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Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
Spoke with a firearms attorney, and was advised to CC on the parks premisis, but I should just continue to carry as I wish in and on my property. I have a right to (I believe he said) "peaceful and quiet enjoyment" of my home since I pay rent here, meaning that as long as I am not breaking any laws, then I should be able to go about my business undisturbed.
 

stainless1911

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Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
I received a response from my state representative, following was my response to it.

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 13:21:59 -0400
From: Shavens@house.mi.gov
To: @live.com
Subject: Fwd: Firearms

Wed. Oct. 20, 2010

Neil,

Here is the reply our office received back from the Legislative Service Bureau. As you will note, the law appears to be unclear. Nevertheless, I hope this information will prove helpful.

Sharon Havens
Rep. Eileen Kowall's office
www.repkowall.com


>>> "Terry Bergstrom" <TBergstrom@legislature.mi.gov> 10/19/2010 10:56 AM >>>
Michigan's laws neither specifically allow as in some states, (TN), or prohibit (MT), landlords from prohibiting firearms on their property. No bills have been introduced on this subject in recent years. Nonetheless, in the enclosed Michigan court of appeals decision, the court upheld a landlords's right to ban firearms. Whether this would apply in all cases or in mobile home parks is unclear. In addition, the language of the prohibition does not make it clear whether the ban is on brandishing or displaying ostentatiously as discussed in the enclosed attorney general opinion, or if it is designed to be an outright ban.
.......................................................................................................................

Although I thank you for the research, I feel a small error has been made, My question does not involve whether the trailer park has the right to prohibit firearms on their premises, (I believe they unfortunately do), but whether they can ban firearms on my site, and in my home. This trailer is bought and paid for, I own it free and clear. Also, I pay rent on the site, therefore, I not only claim constitutional rights, but I claim any and all tenants rights in this matter. Similar issues have been addressed by the US Supreme court both last year with Heller vs. DC, and again this year also at SCOTUS with the Chicago vs. McDonald case. If you could revisit this issue, I would greatly appreciate it.

If in fact there is nothing on the books, then legislation should be introduced immediately in protection of this large, and rapidly growing portion of society.

Thanks as always, Neil
 

stainless1911

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Dec 19, 2009
Messages
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Davisburg, Michigan, United States
Included in their response was this reference.

NETSCAN.PDF
liveview_download_dark.png
Download(58.5 KB)

The file was an attatchment, and I don't know how to get it to work here. If you want it, I'll forward the email to you.
 
Last edited:

stainless1911

Banned
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Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
response. I thanked them for their attension in the matter. If possible, I would like to move out of here. too bad, I like the trailer, just hate the park. If this thing was a little bigger with a small garage, on its own property I would be set.

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:20:30 -0400
From: Shavens@house.mi.gov
To: @live.com
Subject: Firearms

.ExternalClass .ecxhmmessage p { padding: 0px; }.ExternalClass body.ecxhmmessage { font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; } Thursday, Oct. 21, 2010

Neil,

I asked the Legislative Service Bureau to take a look at your e-mail and here is their reply:


>>> "Terry Bergstrom" 10/21/2010 11:00 AM >>>
There's nothing I can add to this, and he seems to be up on it. It's all up to the courts now.

I will bring this matter to Rep. Kowall's attention and let her know of your request that you would like legislation introduced to correct this situation.
 

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
Dear Neil,

Thank you for contacting my office regarding your concerns with the new gun provision at your trailer park. I appreciate you taking the time to e-mail my office; however, I regret your frustrations that prompted your correspondence.

I contacted the Attorney General's office on your behalf. My liaison offered the following response to clarify the implications of the 2nd Amendment.

"The Constitution and the various cases interpreting the 2nd amendment relate to what the Government can or cannot do. The Government cannot prohibit a person from possessing a firearm in their residence. Unless the Federal or State governments require property owners to permit the possession of firearms on their property, there is no requirement that they do so. As of now, no such law exists. Thus, we see business owners, churches, etc. banning possession of firearms on their property."

With that said, my liaison also stated that it does not appear that the landlord is prohibiting the possession of firearms for CPL holders or for self-defense purposes in the home. Based on his understanding of the information you provided, as long as the weapon is concealed on the person, carried in a container or secured in the home, the rule - which bans the "brandishing or display of firearms" - is not violated. Please keep in mind that this is not an official opinion from the AG's office, but the information is meant to clarify the concerns you addressed in your e-mail.

I hope this helped address some of your concerns. Please do not hesitate to contact my office should you need assistance on any other matters pertaining to state government.

Sincerely,

Larry DeShazor
State Representative
61st District
 

stainless1911

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Davisburg, Michigan, United States
Thank you so much for your assistance. You have gone above and beyond your peers, this kind of response is what many wish would happen when they contact their government, but it seldom happens. This is how people get re-elected, and I will do my part in supporting you in that effort. Thanks again.

There are at least two other states that have laws in place as we speak that are designed specifically to protect the rights of citizens in this position. I would like someone to propose a law in Michigan like this.If you could do this, it would be great. Unfortunately, those who live in apartments, and trailers cant afford equal access to the court system and or any or quality lawyers, therefore a law to protect them should be in effect, and provide stiff penalties to those landlords who violate it. Again, I thank you for your time, and continued attention in this matter. Open carry is not so much about the second amendment, as it is about the first. I could conceal with my CPL, but I choose not to for many reasons.
 

Bailenforcer

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
1,077
Location
City
I will preface my remarks first and foremost.

William James (1842-1910) The father of modern Psychology "There's nothing so absurd that if you repeat it often enough, people will believe it."

"The size of the lie is a definite factor in causing it to be believed,
for the vast masses of a nation are in the depths of their hearts more
easily deceived than they are consciously and intentionally bad. The
primitive simplicity of their minds renders them a more easy prey to a
big lie than a small one, for they themselves often tell little lies,
but would be ashamed to tell big lies."
Adolph Hitler.
Mein Kampf Page 197

A lie told often enough becomes the truth.
Lenin
Russian Communist politician & revolutionary (1870 - 1924)
Sometimes attributed to Hitler or Joseph Goebbels.

..................................................................................................................................................

I am betting the Park is a Corporation and I am also betting the ignorant will once again have kittens over this. A Corporation is a Government agency by agreement. Once you set up a Corporation you loose all control of ownership and by default it becomes the property of Government ran by an appointed head called a CEO, and or chairman. The deliberate misreading of the laws and Constitution by some claiming to be rights advocates borders on criminal collusion.

Then add in the fact that the Bill of Rights, Named Three rights that supersede all other rights and we have an illegal act by a quasi Government agency (the Corporation) ran and totally controlled by a host of Government agencies to name a couple Federal Trade Commission, Securities and Exchange commission, and we now have a Constitutional crisis. There are NO property rights that can overrule the BILL OF RIGHTS!

I grow weary of the rapidly, and rabidly growing Fascism we see dressed as wolves in sheeps (rights advocates) clothing. We better wake up now, or we will wake up in chains...ME

Soon everything will be declared off limits to gun rights under the LIE of property rights. Most Government agencies are selling off infrastructure to make money and soon your own street your home sits on will be owned by a Corporation and it will some day declare property rights, and prohibit your gun rights.

I will close with a quote...

`The smell of the Weimar Republic is in the air.''

-Gore Vidal, from a 1996 speech at the National Press Club



http://www.afn.org/~govern/weimar.html
















Thank you so much for your assistance. You have gone above and beyond your peers, this kind of response is what many wish would happen when they contact their government, but it seldom happens. This is how people get re-elected, and I will do my part in supporting you in that effort. Thanks again.

There are at least two other states that have laws in place as we speak that are designed specifically to protect the rights of citizens in this position. I would like someone to propose a law in Michigan like this.If you could do this, it would be great. Unfortunately, those who live in apartments, and trailers cant afford equal access to the court system and or any or quality lawyers, therefore a law to protect them should be in effect, and provide stiff penalties to those landlords who violate it. Again, I thank you for your time, and continued attention in this matter. Open carry is not so much about the second amendment, as it is about the first. I could conceal with my CPL, but I choose not to for many reasons.
 

TheQ

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
Thank you so much for your assistance. You have gone above and beyond your peers, this kind of response is what many wish would happen when they contact their government, but it seldom happens. This is how people get re-elected, and I will do my part in supporting you in that effort. Thanks again.

It looks like Larry is a member of the GOP. He appears to recently had a successful bid for Michigan's 20th Senate District.
 

Bailenforcer

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
1,077
Location
City
MR State of Michigan employee I didn't ask for your inane comments, you keep fighting for the State you so proudly work for. Many are now finally figuring out where you come from, and who's side you always seem to take. You have not once refuted anything I said, all you do is derail, obfuscate, and try to confuse the issue to the States side of the argument. Just once give me facts not childish conjecture.


Have you ever considered running for a position in the US Senate? I'm sure you'd have no problem filibustering ANY debate. Just read some good ole quotes from your favorite retired judge. It doesn't really matter if they are relevant or not. Just keep talking! It's what you do best!
 

TheQ

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
You have not once refuted anything I said

Actually, I have a number of times. I won't bother listing them all. The problem is you only read half of my post, apparently, and then go on a filibuster tirade.

I ask you very specific questions also, which you never seemingly bother to read, if so -- rarely answer. It seems like my efforts to sincerely talk to you are like talking to a brick wall. I try to be civilized, but you are the one who always degrades the PERSON on the other side of your debate rather than focusing on the topic matter. It seems bullying is your tactic. Go back to high school so you can bully some Jr. High kid who will just put up with it...

When you're ready to have an honest discussion without going on personal attacks like a badly ran political campaign, have someone PM me on your behalf for you will surely be on ignore.
 
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