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Thread: Just an idea

  1. #1
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    Just an idea

    Before the flames start, I know about the existing "prepaid legal".
    I am fairly certain that there are more than 2 attorney members on OCDO. At least 1 could not engage in this due to his professional position.
    Drew, could you look into the formation of a group, pre pay, that would specialize in firearms law? If enough attorneys were to form this I am certain that there would be a a sttrong following of memberships.
    I would hope for the Washigton group, this could be a good start.
    Good Idea? Bad idea?
    Last edited by Trigger Dr; 10-16-2010 at 08:17 PM. Reason: to add text

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    Before the flames start, I know about the existing "prepaid legal".
    I am fairly certain that there are more than 2 attorney members on OCDO. At least 1 could not engage in this due to his professional position.
    Drew, could you look into the formation of a group, pre pay, that would specialize in firearms law? If enough attorneys were to form this I am certain that there would be a a sttrong following of memberships.
    Good Idea? Bad idea?
    Good idea.
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    What Gogo said. Excellent idea. We NEED something like this in Washington. I would definitely support this.
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    Regular Member joejoejoe's Avatar
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    I would probably be MORE inclined to do this

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    Good Idea IMHO

    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Good idea.
    There were 2 lawyers, a husband & wife team, at a gun show last year in Spokane that were trying to set something like this up. It did not look like they were getting many bites I gave them my card and asked them to call me when they got going because I was interested. So far no call. The husband was very knowledgable about OC he asked me a lot of questions about my experiance OCing and seemed dissapointed when I told him I had had no problems.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    I's not a bad idea but I don't think it is totally practical. From what I've been able to find out about "Pre-Paid Legal" services so far (yup, I had a similar idea), is that they specialize in two areas. One is in "pyramid schemes" and the other, the legit ones, do mostly work that is quick and somewhat routine. To defend one in a Self Defense case could involve lots of variables and in order to cover them the rates would be quite high for all.

    I would rather see a "vetted" Network of Attorneys that practice in the area of 2A and related Criminal Defense. A network that provides a 24/7 referral service with an easy to remember Toll Free number. If it require's a small annual fee, sort of a retainer, so be it. I'd rather this than a Pre-Paid service that might have to operate like an Insurance Company, thus cutting costs wherever they could. Those cost cutting measures might come at your expense should you need an expert witness, lab analysis, outside investigator, etc.

    Just my thoughts, perhaps not even worth $0.02.
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    I's not a bad idea but I don't think it is totally practical. From what I've been able to find out about "Pre-Paid Legal" services so far (yup, I had a similar idea), is that they specialize in two areas. One is in "pyramid schemes" and the other, the legit ones, do mostly work that is quick and somewhat routine. To defend one in a Self Defense case could involve lots of variables and in order to cover them the rates would be quite high for all.

    I would rather see a "vetted" Network of Attorneys that practice in the area of 2A and related Criminal Defense. A network that provides a 24/7 referral service with an easy to remember Toll Free number. If it require's a small annual fee, sort of a retainer, so be it. I'd rather this than a Pre-Paid service that might have to operate like an Insurance Company, thus cutting costs wherever they could. Those cost cutting measures might come at your expense should you need an expert witness, lab analysis, outside investigator, etc.

    Just my thoughts, perhaps not even worth $0.02.
    Your thoughts are right in line with what I was thinking. Just a little better spelled out. Most of the work could be done by paralegal staff as it is currently handled .
    Good preliminary work and a letter from an attorney quite often is all that is needed. If and when litigation were to raise its' ugly head, then is when a legal fund would be needed.
    I know Randy Loun is no longer practicing due to health reasons, but I will contact him for some suggestions and report back.
    Last edited by Trigger Dr; 10-16-2010 at 11:28 PM.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    I am amazed how many of us (including myself) law abiding citizens, talk about getting lawyers on retainers, having them on the sidelines, ready to defend us for LEGAL OPEN CARRY. I started thinking how assinine it is that we need to be prepared for a violation of our rights that might end in a harrasment case or worse an arrest. It is so stupid that we Americans have to worry about being arrested for not breaking the law in America by Law Enforcement that has been paid for by US Americans.
    The thing I am more shocked with, is the fact we havnt figured out how to pool all our resources together to change the fact we are being Illegally arrested, Illegally detained, Illegally found guilty for crimes not commited then forced to take a plea deal to retain those rights that we shouldnt have lost in the first place. It is sad that night after night we sit together and yak about what should be done but yet are not really doing anything. There a few that put alot of time into writng letters, following up on them, and initiating meets to prove a point. I see alot of great minds here and I think if they could get together, they could put an end to alot of the illegal detainments.
    To bad Poo or now Mr green jeans has taken the initiative to try to get the law passed for adults his age to be able to carry. I cant wait till he either get the age changed and can carry or just comes of age to carry, then he can focus on being able to carry without LEO harrasment.

    OK, let the flamers begin flaming.

    I typed
    To bad Poo or now Mr green jeans has taken the initiative to try to get the law passed for adults his age to be able to carry. I cant wait till he either get the age changed and can carry or just comes of age to carry, then he can focus on being able to carry without LEO harrasment.

    Sorry Poo.

    I didnt mean too bad... there were two thoughts and part of one dissapeared and too bad landed in front of another thought. It was supposed to be Too bad more 18 year olds dont get on board with poo, and to say that Poo has taken the initiative.
    Last edited by amzbrady; 10-17-2010 at 10:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    I am amazed how many of us (including myself) law abiding citizens, talk about getting lawyers on retainers, having them on the sidelines, ready to defend us for LEGAL OPEN CARRY. I started thinking how assinine it is that we need to be prepared for a violation of our rights that might end in a harrasment case or worse an arrest. It is so stupid that we Americans have to worry about being arrested for not breaking the law in America by Law Enforcement that has been paid for by US Americans.
    The thing I am more shocked with, is the fact we havnt figured out how to pool all our resources together to change the fact we are being Illegally arrested, Illegally detained, Illegally found guilty for crimes not commited then forced to take a plea deal to retain those rights that we shouldnt have lost in the first place. It is sad that night after night we sit together and yak about what should be done but yet are not really doing anything. There a few that put alot of time into writng letters, following up on them, and initiating meets to prove a point. I see alot of great minds here and I think if they could get together, they could put an end to alot of the illegal detainments.
    To bad Poo or now Mr green jeans has taken the initiative to try to get the law passed for adults his age to be able to carry. I cant wait till he either get the age changed and can carry or just comes of age to carry, then he can focus on being able to carry without LEO harrasment.

    OK, let the flamers begin flaming.

    I don't see anything to flame. I think we are discussing an idea that several of us are interested in. Over on the "organization" thread several people mentioned a defense fund. So obviously, many of us recognize the need for possible legal representation.

    I agree that it is a shame that such a thing is necessary to defend ourselves from prosecution for exercising a legal right. However, I think Josh's case and Kirby's case clearly show that it does happen and it requires money. I know I couldn't afford an attorney on my own, not at the present time anyway. And right there is the crux if the matter, or at least one of them. Law enforcement, PA's etc. KNOW that in all likelyhood most people do NOT have the necessary funds to pursue a case against an illegal action by LE. We as citizens do not have the clout like the NRA or SAF have, nor do we have the funds that they do. As much as I have been opposed to a formal organization, I think it might be prudent to ask someone on Wisconsin Carry Inc. if they have a legal defense fund or how they have so far handled this question. JMO
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    Regular Member Tomas's Avatar
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    You mean something like this?

    http://armedcitizensnetwork.org/

    (Watch me get burned down to my socks...)

    I really don't know any background on this, but there must be some reason it's never mentioned.
    Last edited by Tomas; 10-17-2010 at 01:54 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomas View Post
    You mean something like this?

    http://armedcitizensnetwork.org/

    (Watch me get burned down to my socks...)

    I really don't know any background on this, but there must be some reason it's never mentioned.
    They only come to aid in the aftermath of a true SD shooting. They do not assist in criminal citations issued for simple OC.
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    Regular Member joejoejoe's Avatar
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    We should be spending our efforts into getting the state law to change or eliminate the vague wording of a law that came into place after the Black Panthers. It would be cheaper...

    Joe~

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joejoejoe View Post
    We should be spending our efforts into getting the state law to change or eliminate the vague wording of a law that came into place after the Black Panthers. It would be cheaper...

    Joe~
    and benefit everyone who carrys a firearm.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    Before the flames start, I know about the existing "prepaid legal".
    I am fairly certain that there are more than 2 attorney members on OCDO. At least 1 could not engage in this due to his professional position.
    Drew, could you look into the formation of a group, pre pay, that would specialize in firearms law? If enough attorneys were to form this I am certain that there would be a a sttrong following of memberships.
    I would hope for the Washigton group, this could be a good start.
    Good Idea? Bad idea?
    I find this a better idea than having a group of folks who might possibly lead to some sort of power struggle. And I would support something like this.

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    Regular Member Squeak's Avatar
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    I'd like to get someone(GoGo.Trigger Doc) to go to Oly with me and talk to a couple of our elected ones and explain to them what we really face. I have talked to Jan Angel and Derek Kilmer before. Different issues, tho. They will give us some time for a brief talk. Any ideas?

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeak View Post
    I'd like to get someone(GoGo.Trigger Doc) to go to Oly with me and talk to a couple of our elected ones and explain to them what we really face. I have talked to Jan Angel and Derek Kilmer before. Different issues, tho. They will give us some time for a brief talk. Any ideas?
    When you going? I been busy lately but could take time out to go to Oly.

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    Squeak,
    I am ready to do this. BUT it will have to wait a few days. I am recovering from a severe allergic reaction to a prescription drug. Bad berries I'll tell ya.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeak View Post
    I'd like to get someone(GoGo.Trigger Doc) to go to Oly with me and talk to a couple of our elected ones and explain to them what we really face. I have talked to Jan Angel and Derek Kilmer before. Different issues, tho. They will give us some time for a brief talk. Any ideas?
    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    When you going? I been busy lately but could take time out to go to Oly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    Squeak,
    I am ready to do this. BUT it will have to wait a few days. I am recovering from a severe allergic reaction to a prescription drug. Bad berries I'll tell ya.
    I suspect more than a few days....no one is in Olympia this time of year. However, we would be smart to find a small caucus of friendly legislators and schedule a meeting with a well thought out presentation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    I am amazed how many of us (including myself) law abiding citizens, talk about getting lawyers on retainers, having them on the sidelines, ready to defend us for LEGAL OPEN CARRY. I started thinking how assinine it is that we need to be prepared for a violation of our rights that might end in a harrasment case or worse an arrest. It is so stupid that we Americans have to worry about being arrested for not breaking the law in America by Law Enforcement that has been paid for by US Americans.
    The thing I am more shocked with, is the fact we havnt figured out how to pool all our resources together to change the fact we are being Illegally arrested, Illegally detained, Illegally found guilty for crimes not commited then forced to take a plea deal to retain those rights that we shouldnt have lost in the first place. It is sad that night after night we sit together and yak about what should be done but yet are not really doing anything. There a few that put alot of time into writng letters, following up on them, and initiating meets to prove a point. I see alot of great minds here and I think if they could get together, they could put an end to alot of the illegal detainments.
    To bad Poo or now Mr green jeans has taken the initiative to try to get the law passed for adults his age to be able to carry. I cant wait till he either get the age changed and can carry or just comes of age to carry, then he can focus on being able to carry without LEO harrasment.

    OK, let the flamers begin flaming.

    Amz,

    Over on the "organization" thread you pretty much came out against a formal organization; at least that is what I gathered from your comments. On this thread you are complaining that we just sit around and do nothing. Does anyone besides me see the inconsistency of that? I am not trying to be critical, just trying to understand how you could complain that nothing gets done and at the same time be against an organization that could very well get those things accomplished. I would be interested in hearing your comments about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    I suspect more than a few days....no one is in Olympia this time of year. However, we would be smart to find a small caucus of friendly legislators and schedule a meeting with a well thought out presentation.

    This is EXACTLY where a "formal organization" would be most effective. I am trying to be more open minded about this. To be fair, there are instances where being a formal organization would clearly be advantageous.
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    This is EXACTLY where a "formal organization" would be most effective. I am trying to be more open minded about this. To be fair, there are instances where being a formal organization would clearly be advantageous.
    Correct. And I see a formal organization doing very little of what the core group of OCers have already done in Washington. Rather I see the formal group doing the things we wish we could do, the things we need resources to do, the things that take a person or two 60 hours a week year round to do...

    What this group has done on this forum (see Deros links and history) will continue to get done and is a very powerful statement to the community.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Correct. And I see a formal organization doing very little of what the core group of OCers have already done in Washington. Rather I see the formal group doing the things we wish we could do, the things we need resources to do, the things that take a person or two 60 hours a week year round to do...

    What this group has done on this forum (see Deros links and history) will continue to get done and is a very powerful statement to the community.
    A formal organization could make a very powerful statement in Olympia. Gogo, Deros, M1Gnr( spelling)and others have already been doing this long before I joined this forum. I don't see that changing; correct me if I am wrong. A formal organization would give those in Olympia a focus point, a contact point. If we hope to effect change for all Washington carriers we need to present a unified front to those who can help our cause. I'm sure someone else has mentioned this, I am probably paraphrasing someone else, but it bears repeating. History has borne out that organized groups of people always accomplish more than individuals working separately. Where would we be today if our Founding Fathers had not gotten organized? They certainly would not have beaten the British and forged a nation without organization. We have enemies today that are just as determined to take our rights away from us. THEY are organized; we need to be also if we are to fight them effectively. We need to have our voices heard where it counts, in Olympia, and wherever else it can make a difference. I am beginning to see this organization as an addition to what we are already doing, not a replacement. We need people who are well versed in the law to represent us to law enforcement, in Olympia, etc. We also need people to continue to OC in public, attend meets, set up social events, etc. It is not either/or, we need both.
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    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member joejoejoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    I suspect more than a few days....no one is in Olympia this time of year. However, we would be smart to find a small caucus of friendly legislators and schedule a meeting with a well thought out presentation.
    Now this I would be up for. I will spend the next couple of days into researching when and how to get something like this going. Ill get back to you once I figure something out.

    Joe~

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    Quote Originally Posted by joejoejoe View Post
    Now this I would be up for. I will spend the next couple of days into researching when and how to get something like this going. Ill get back to you once I figure something out.

    Joe~
    I wouldn't mind being there to share my experience if anyone thinks it might help.
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    I do have something along this line I am undertaking.If my plan comes together then I will put it out here.If it does come to fruition I have in mind some folks I'll ask to help .If it doesn't I'll back the truck up and start over.I should know in a few days.And you don't even have to use resources to pay me a salary.I have all the time in the world I can put into this.To try and set something up to use resouces that quite possibly could be used for legal etc to pay a salary or salaries is way premature and in light of how well we have done to date without it isn't nessesary.
    Anyway I will keep you posted as I work this out.I have already lit some fires.

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