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Thread: Non-OC experience - However a CC with a Positive LEO MV stop worth sharing

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    Regular Member Northerner's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Non-OC experience - However a CC with a Positive LEO MV stop worth sharing

    Well, it was only a matter of time. I normally OC where ever and whenever possible. Going out last night with my wife and two friends, I CC'd. Although they are well educated on OC (I speak about it frequently), it's a matter of respect while still practicing my 2A rights. Anyway, we were traveling on 440 OB heading for the Crab Tree Exit, heavy in conversation. I got in the far right lane (exit lane) one exit too early, realizing this, with plenty of room; I turn signaled, punched it and got back on 440 for the next Exit. Bad directions from back seat drivers. Unfortunately I had crossed over the solid white line. In hind sight, I should have taking the EXIT and rentered on the on ramp. You guessed it, an unmarked low profile SP 3 cars back pulled me. I immediately let everyone know that was carrying. I remained calm and took out my license and CHP. When he approached he stated I had performed an unsafe lane change. I gave him both IDs and kept my hands on the steering wheel. He asked if I was carrying and of course I said "Yes sir." He asked "Where is it located?" I said "Inside my waistband". "Okay, next time let the LEO know you are carrying when you give the LEO your CHP." Of course I said, "Yes sir." However, I remember my CC class instructor saying it's best to show LEO the CHP and let them ask. Saying, "I am armed" before he can register in his mind my CHP, seems presumptive and may cause undue alarm. He went back to his car and we laughed and all collectively said "phew.". 5 minutes passed and he approached the passenger side handing my IDs back and let me go with a warning. Traffic was heavy and I assume he did this last move so he could watch me and stay out of traffic. Interesting, he did not ask if anyone else was CCing or armed. All-and-all a positive experience. Still no LEO contact while OCing, but back to OCing today when I run errands later. Thanks for lettng me indulge with my experience.

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    I am pretty sure the law actually says it is your duty to inform the LEO that you are carrying and provide them with your CHP any time you are in an interaction with a LEO.
    Your instructor gave you bad info.

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billxdm View Post
    I am pretty sure the law actually says it is your duty to inform the LEO that you are carrying and provide them with your CHP any time you are in an interaction with a LEO.
    Your instructor gave you bad info.
    +1

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    I have done it the same way, hand the permit first then inform usless he beats me to the punch and asks.
    I believe the instructor was saying its better to hand them your permit before stating "I have a gun"

    N.C. Gen. Stat. 14-415.12A

    Any individual who has applied for and has been issued a concealed handgun permit must

    follow certain regulations concerning its use. Not only must the individual carry the permit along

    with proper identification whenever the handgun is being carried concealed, but he/she must also

    inform any law enforcement officer who approaches him/her that he/she is in possession of a permit

    and a concealed handgun. N.C. Gen. Stat. 14-415.11(a) Failure to do so is a first offense infraction

    and subjects the permittee to payment of a fine of up to $100.00. However, in lieu of paying a fine

    for the first offense, the individual may choose to surrender his or her permit. Any subsequent

    offense shall be punishable as a Class 2 Misdemeanor. Any individual who violates any other

    standards for the carrying of a concealed handgun with a permit is guilty of a Class 2 Misdemeanor.

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    Regular Member Northerner's Avatar
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    Thanks all. Next time, if and when, I will let the LEO know right after handing the CHP. " I do have my firearm."

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    "Sir, at this time I am required by law to inform you that I have a CHP and that I am carrying"



    Interesting, he did not ask if anyone else was CCing or armed.
    Technically, he has no grounds to ask anyone else in the vehicle any questions at all. Reality is that even if he did, all passengers could actually remain silent and say nothing and he couldnt do anything. It is even the case that passengers can legally refuse to exit the vehicle and submit to pat downs.

    This of course would only apply to traffic infractions, if there were any suspicions of any other activities, Terry would apply.

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    It is required that the first thing to do is tell the officer that you have a permit and are carrying. It is recommended that you do not get your permit, driver licensee, etc. until and if the officer ask you for them. Reaching for a permit, etc. can be interpreted by the officer as reaching for your weapon.

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    Regular Member Northerner's Avatar
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    Permit and License were out before he came to the window to avoid just that. Next time, if there is a next time, I will state "Sir, at this time I am required by law to inform you that I am carrying."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northerner View Post
    Permit and License were out before he came to the window to avoid just that. Next time, if there is a next time, I will state "Sir, at this time I am required by law to inform you that I am carrying."
    I would amend that a little further and say, "Sir, at this time I am required by law to inform you that I have a Concealed Carry Permit and I am carrying." I would mention the permit as well.

    I wouldn't say "Concealed HandGUN Permit". I don't like anyone saying "gun" around the police. You never know how the officer OR his partner from many feet away may react when they hear it. Heck it would be bad enough if the officer asked, "you have a gun?" and his partner on the other side of the car heard, "HE HAS A GUN!"

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    Regular Member Resto Guy's Avatar
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    It sounds like a lot of are used to dealing with Barney Fife type cops. Some of you are actually afraid to utter "gun" to a LEO? I doubt that the average cop is going to freak out and start shooting upon hearing "gun" spoken. I think they deserve more credit.
    I've had to disclose twice, and it was no big deal. The first time I had my hands in view and told the H.P. officer that I had a permit to carry concealed, and it's with my license. My gun is in my right front pocket. He asked "Where is your license?"
    Right back pocket.
    "Okay, get out your license. Do you know your tag is dead?"
    Actually I have five more days of grace.

    He ran my DL and told me to have a good day.

    Second time (same day) was a DUI checkpoint. I handed over my DL and permit together, while saying "it's in my front pocket." He smiled, nodded, handed the items back and said I could go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resto Guy View Post
    Some of you are actually afraid to utter "gun" to a LEO? I doubt that the average cop is going to freak out and start shooting upon hearing "gun" spoken. I think they deserve more credit.
    I am not afraid. And it is not the "average" cop I am concerned about. And it isn't the cop I am speaking directly to that I am thinking about either. And I am not necessarily worried about them immediately drawing and shooting. I could go on and on...

    To each his own. I believe "firearm" or no specific word at all more appropriate during an officer interaction.

    I do notice that you specifically mentioned having both your hands in view the first time you were pulled over while carrying. Why was that? Just being respectful and extra careful? Just doing what you can to ensure the stop goes as smoothly as possible?

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    Regular Member Northerner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resto Guy View Post
    It sounds like a lot of are used to dealing with Barney Fife type cops. Some of you are actually afraid to utter "gun" to a LEO? I doubt that the average cop is going to freak out and start shooting upon hearing "gun" spoken. I think they deserve more credit.
    Former LEO while in attending college (NE) back in the early 90s. Different "state" of mind back then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skipbadger View Post
    ....I do notice that you specifically mentioned having both your hands in view the first time you were pulled over while carrying. Why was that? Just being respectful and extra careful? Just doing what you can to ensure the stop goes as smoothly as possible?
    Exactly. I know a few city cops and have had conversations about just this type of thing. I also talked with an off duty deputy about this topic one Saturday in a gun shop. It seems that most LEO (around here anyway) are used to dealing with lawfully armed citizens, and it's not a big deal.
    Our Sheriff is very pro-gun for our citizens also. A few years ago he told me that if more citizens would carry, it would make less work for his people!

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    Regular Member Northerner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skipbadger View Post
    I do notice that you specifically mentioned having both your hands in view the first time you were pulled over while carrying. Why was that? Just being respectful and extra careful? Just doing what you can to ensure the stop goes as smoothly as possible?
    Absolutely. I wanted to make the LEO as comfortable as possible. I do NOT want to seem a threat to him/her, regardless if I am carrying. I also recommend turning on the interior light. It demonstrates you have nothing to hide.

    Though, I do dread the day that a LEO asks to hold my firearm, while he runs my license (for his safety). Key word is "ask" and if I will stand for the "illegal search and siezure." I will comply most likely, record what I can on my cell, and make my complaint to the chief, County AG, and State AG if need be. I just hope it never comes to that.

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    3 Years ago, when I wasn't that educated about alot of things, I was pulled over for speeding 55 in a 45. I told him as soon as he got beside my window that my gun was laying in the seat beside me, he reached in and picked it up, unloaded it, sat the gun & the bullets on top of my truck hood. We finished up with the stop, and since there was a mistake in the system, they had my license suspended, even though it wasn't supposed to be, I had to call someone to come drive my truck and I home. He gave my friend the bullets and gave me the gun and told me not to load the gun til he was out of sight.

    Are you telling me that this is illegal? I have no prior problems above an expired tag or speeding, so he had no reason to fear me. I also had my kids with me, so once again there was no reason to fear me. Can someone cite anything to clue me in a little better?
    "God, Guns, & Guts Made America, Lets Use All 3!!!"

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    I have had to tell the officers twice with two seperate accasions since I started carrying ,and both times they didnt even give a damn. One said, "I dont care about that" I thought it was kind of cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smlawrence View Post
    3 Years ago, when I wasn't that educated about alot of things, I was pulled over for speeding 55 in a 45. I told him as soon as he got beside my window that my gun was laying in the seat beside me, he reached in and picked it up, unloaded it, sat the gun & the bullets on top of my truck hood. We finished up with the stop, and since there was a mistake in the system, they had my license suspended, even though it wasn't supposed to be, I had to call someone to come drive my truck and I home. He gave my friend the bullets and gave me the gun and told me not to load the gun til he was out of sight.

    Are you telling me that this is illegal? I have no prior problems above an expired tag or speeding, so he had no reason to fear me. I also had my kids with me, so once again there was no reason to fear me. Can someone cite anything to clue me in a little better?

    I was stopped about 6 weeks ago for improper lane change. I advised the officer that I was armed as he reached my window. He asked for my DL, registration and insurance card, which I gave him. Then he said he was going to take my gun and I could have it back when we were finished. He reached in, unsnapped the retention strap, unholstered it and laid it on the roof of my car. I told him he did not have my permission to take my gun. When he came back, he unloaded it and gave it to me; he didn't unload the mag but did eject the round in the chamber. When he picked it up, I told him not to lower the hammer, that it was a 1911. He didn't. I got everything back and reloaded as he was leaving. He didn't give me a ticket. Someone else on the Washington forum said that they have a right to do that for officer safety. The LEO doesn't know you and doesn't know what you will do with your gun while he is running a check. He might come back to someone's car and have that person stick a gun in his face. I didn't particularly like it, but I can understand why they do it. It probably depends on what the policy is in the state, town or city where you are. I understand some do and some don't.
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    Correction to above post: he removed the mag from the gun, but did not unload the cartridges is what I meant to say.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

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    I dont totally agree with the idea "its for the officers safety" anyone could have a gun and the officer not know it. If I was a killer I wouldnt tell the officer I had a gun. My other point is, more accidents happen from fiddle dic&^% around with a gun pulling it out of the holster or case.

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    Regular Member Northerner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wethepeople View Post
    I dont totally agree with the idea "its for the officers safety" anyone could have a gun and the officer not know it. If I was a killer I wouldnt tell the officer I had a gun. My other point is, more accidents happen from fiddle dic&^% around with a gun pulling it out of the holster or case.
    I agree. I would verbally protest (politely), but not stop him/her. Not all LEO are versed in all types of hand guns. A 1911 is much different than a Glock to a Revolver. This is something I think about when out and about when carrying in "condition one." Will he/she unload it correctly????

    Good discussion (even though I have been told it is "off topic - OC")
    Last edited by Northerner; 10-21-2010 at 04:39 PM.

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    For those officers who feel the need to take the firearm for their safety, this should be the driver's response:

    "Sir, as a law abiding citizen I feel the safest firearm is a firearm that remains untouched in its holster, I do not consent to you taking my firearm, however I will not physically resist should you still choose to seize it"

    Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is that the issue of search and seizure is for the officer to deal with as he sees fit (legal or not), not the driver. Be polite, don't consent, and after that, politely remain silent. All any driver can really do is deal with the aftermath in the way they feel appropriate (official complaints, lawsuits, rants on the internet, etc).

    Of course the audio recorder is on the entire time as well.

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