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Thread: Stopped @ Stop & Shop supermarket in Newington

  1. #1
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    Thumbs up Stopped @ Stop & Shop supermarket in Newington

    Well today was quite the experience for me. I got stopped & questioned for the first time whle open carrying @ Stop & Shop supermarket in Newingtion. I was their with my wife and my cousin. While they were paying at the register I went to the redbox to view the movies. I looked to my right and saw two police officers - a woman and a man. They were looking over at me and I continued to view the movies and was thinking to myself "I have a feeling they are here for me". While I was viewing the movies I hear a voice behind me go "Sir" and I said "How are you doing officer"...and he proceeded to ask me "Is their any reason why you have your gun exposed?"...I answered him saying "CT is an open carry state so I have the option to not have it concealed". The lady officer asked "who are you here with?"..and I replied "With my wife and cousin". The male officer then asked me for my permit and driver's license, so I handed them over and asked if I was being detained. The male officer said "No. we got a call from someone in the store that was alarmed..I just need to verify your permit is valid and do a background check". I was cleared with no warrents and my permit was valid. I then asked the officer if I could reach in my back pocket...and he said it was ok. I pulled out 2 CCDL pamphlets and handed it to the male and female officer. The female officer started reading it and was VERY surprised that CT was open carry. I feel good that I educated 2 police officers in the town of Newingtion and am hoping they share with their fellow collegues. They let me go and I was not detained...I did not have to leave the store either. So that was my experience on a Sunday afternoon with a win for CCDL and gun owners.

    PS: Rich B ..your not alone in this fight...

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    Regular Member KennyB's Avatar
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    None of us who OC are alone in this fight. Sounds like you handled yourself correctly and it worked out for you. As we've seen, many times it does NOT. I have been OC'ing for almost 8 months now, with no problems yet. For some reason, most of the OC problems with law inforcement seem to be in the southern part of the state. Hmmm, could it be because it's more 'liberial' in that part of the state hence more antis? Makes ya wonder and is good food for thought.............

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    Has anyone been OC in the Stamford CT area? I know the cops there are not very well educated, and my emailing the chief did not yield any results.

    Quote Originally Posted by KennyB View Post
    None of us who OC are alone in this fight. Sounds like you handled yourself correctly and it worked out for you. As we've seen, many times it does NOT. I have been OC'ing for almost 8 months now, with no problems yet. For some reason, most of the OC problems with law inforcement seem to be in the southern part of the state. Hmmm, could it be because it's more 'liberial' in that part of the state hence more antis? Makes ya wonder and is good food for thought.............

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Alex, good job on your encounter. Sounds like you correctly expressed yourself and helped educate a couple LEOs that hopefully will help spread the word.

    Something I would have done differently is when they told me that I was not detained, I would not have provided any of my IDs and instead replied "Ok, so I am free to go then. Have a nice day officers.". I know of no obligation to produce any identification in the case of a consensual stop and I would rather the LEOs either leave me alone or up the ante and go for a detainment. This lets us know how much the LEOs understand about the law and about our rights. If they are on the up and up, they should simply let you go.

    I mention this because when you give up your ID without being detained, you are waiving your rights. If the police choose to escalate the situation with an arrest or anything else after this, you have waived significant portions of your 4th amendment rights already and this can effect any litigation or recourse you may have.

    That being said, I don't advise you doing anything that you are not 100% comfortable with. I only share my experience with you to give you a few things to think about.

    Overall, I would say you did a great job. It is always good to walk away with good feelings all around.

    Carry on!

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickNt View Post
    Has anyone been OC in the Stamford CT area? I know the cops there are not very well educated, and my emailing the chief did not yield any results.
    I have been too busy to get a chance to do anything with Stamford. My advice is you go OC there and find out.

    Remember to have a voice recorder running and to obey all rules and laws. I also find it helpful to stay polite and professional at all times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.EastHartford. View Post
    Well today was quite the experience for me. I got stopped & questioned for the first time whle open carrying @ Stop & Shop supermarket in Newingtion. I was their with my wife and my cousin. While they were paying at the register I went to the redbox to view the movies. I looked to my right and saw two police officers - a woman and a man. They were looking over at me and I continued to view the movies and was thinking to myself "I have a feeling they are here for me". While I was viewing the movies I hear a voice behind me go "Sir" and I said "How are you doing officer"...and he proceeded to ask me "Is their any reason why you have your gun exposed?"...I answered him saying "CT is an open carry state so I have the option to not have it concealed". The lady officer asked "who are you here with?"..and I replied "With my wife and cousin". The male officer then asked me for my permit and driver's license, so I handed them over and asked if I was being detained. The male officer said "No. we got a call from someone in the store that was alarmed..I just need to verify your permit is valid and do a background check". I was cleared with no warrents and my permit was valid. I then asked the officer if I could reach in my back pocket...and he said it was ok. I pulled out 2 CCDL pamphlets and handed it to the male and female officer. The female officer started reading it and was VERY surprised that CT was open carry. I feel good that I educated 2 police officers in the town of Newingtion and am hoping they share with their fellow collegues. They let me go and I was not detained...I did not have to leave the store either. So that was my experience on a Sunday afternoon with a win for CCDL and gun owners.

    PS: Rich B ..your not alone in this fight...

    That makes two of us, Alex

    Something similar happened to me when I was grocery shopping at the same Stop & Shop. Two Newington officers showed up and asked in a very courteous tone for some ID and my permit. It took at least five minutes for the permit check to come back 'valid' (that's when the third cop came in and asked '...what was taking so long...'). One cop seemed to be annoyed by being on the call, and the youngest of the three was 'testing' me by mentioning BOP and James Goldberg. I just leaned on my shopping cart waiting for the return radio call announcing 'valid' and when that came they handed me back my id's and we all went on our way.

    I've OC'd in that store MANY times and have never been approached by management; a couple of customers and one employee asked about the legality of OC.

    Maybe we got 'fingered' by the same person!!!

  7. #7
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MGoduto View Post
    Two Newington officers showed up and asked in a very courteous tone for some ID and my permit.
    So you were not detained?

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    Smile

    Rich B I think you should pay a visit to Newington stop & shop. maybe the same police officers will show up on you or different ones.

    Thanks for your advise again Rich. I appreciate it. you seem to have more experience with these type of run-ins. Carry on!

  9. #9
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.EastHartford. View Post
    Rich B I think you should pay a visit to Newington stop & shop. maybe the same police officers will show up on you or different ones.

    Thanks for your advise again Rich. I appreciate it. you seem to have more experience with these type of run-ins. Carry on!
    If I am ever up that way, I will be sure to pay them a visit. It would be interesting to compare notes.

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    Make sure you get all records and the dispatch audio

    Be polite, ask to meet with the Chief, discuss the situation and attempt to have him instruct his officers.

    Be nice, it's going to take time to get everyone on the same page.

    Trust me when I tell you that things will get better.

    In all of these cases, those that are stopped need to request and collect all public records of the incident including but not limited to the original call to law enforcement, the dispatch audio and any written documents generated during the event.

    Don't just let it go an walk away.

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    Alex:

    Good going. I was wondering if the fact that you weren't alone, wife and cousin made it seem like you weren't a "lone wolf" or anything.

    That being said, though I agree with Rich on the ID's, you have to do what you're comfortable with. I might have given them the ID's as well. Not that it's right, but I've seen LEOs "make" things up just to put you in cuffs.

    Ed:

    Who do you contact at the PD to get copies of the audio? Do they try to charge you for a copy?

    I find it interesting that in the other "run in" they actually mentioned Goldberg.

    Jonathan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.EastHartford. View Post
    I then asked the officer if I could reach in my back pocket...and he said it was ok.
    I understand the prudence of "asking" but the actual concept of asking permission to reach in my pocket while doing nothing wrong really rubs me the wrong way.

    OK, you have a gun, but so do the cops. Do you think they ask for permission before reaching into their pockets.

    Therefore in my mind whether or not you are being detained is moot. In effect you are being detained temporarily while they decide if you are going to be formally detained.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnO View Post
    OK, you have a gun, but so do the cops. Do you think they ask for permission before reaching into their pockets.
    I certainly share these feelings seeing that I had the same issue, but seeing that the police are violating the law and my constitutional rights, I have to draw at least a tangential relation to being under threat by an armed criminal.

    In my incident the officer was clearly agitated and nervous and I don't really favor being shot. Yes, it is wrong to have to worry about that at all, but it happens. I will err on the side of caution.

    Therefore in my mind whether or not you are being detained is moot. In effect you are being detained temporarily while they decide if you are going to be formally detained.
    The issue is not at all moot. There is nothing informal about at all about being detained. If you are not free to go, you are detained. That is a serious violation of law and of the constitution.

    There is no RAS available in simply seeing someone with a firearm properly holstered in the state of Connecticut.

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    Post Question for Rich B. et al

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    Posted by MGoduto: Two Newington officers showed up and asked in a very courteous tone for some ID and my permit.
    So you were not detained?
    Do I understand that turning over your Permit and/or Driver's License is not mandatory in these instances?
    I can not even see a Terry Stop being germane as no "suspicious activity" or probable cause is present.
    Logically, they don't ask for someone's driver's license just because they are behind the wheel of a vehicle.
    (re: "we need to make sure your license is in order...")

    Unless one is acting crazy or threatening, I don't even see how "breach of peace" would be considered.
    (Of course, I am finding from this site and others, common sense does not always prevail)

    I run into people with faces and t-shirts that I find disturbing and offensive, but I don't see the need to involve the police.

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    One of you all needs to raise the issue with a CT lawyer re these seizures to check permits - where is the reasonable suspicion that you were not licensed in order to justify the seizure?

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    Connecticut doesn't have an organization to financially support 2nd Amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    One of you all needs to raise the issue with a CT lawyer re these seizures to check permits - where is the reasonable suspicion that you were not licensed in order to justify the seizure?
    Mike,

    Unlike other more active states, Connecticut, (even though we have 150,000 permit holders and several organizations that advocate politically), we do not have any organization willing to organize, educate and solicit donations to support the needed civil actions in response to the violations.

    Everyone seems to be concerned about the issues discussed on this and other message boards, and they may be willing to make donations to support civil actions, but nobody is working to contact and organize those willing to contribute.

    I hear people say "Why doesn't the NRA or Second Amendment foundation get involved here is Connecticut" all the time.

    With 150k permit holders in CT more should be happening.

    I believe that our Second Amendment rights will only be protected though successful litigation against the legislative attempts to take them away.

    We cannot and should not depend on elected officials to protect our rights, history proves this belief.

    It's not enough to have current or future elected officials block proposed laws. What we need is elected officials willing to repeal existing laws that restrict our rights.

    And once elected, public officials often lose their enthusiasm or forget the promises and commitments made.

    Only time will tell.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keanu View Post
    Do I understand that turning over your Permit and/or Driver's License is not mandatory in these instances?
    Why would it be? It is not illegal to carry a firearm openly or concealed in CT. Therefore an officer simply observing a firearm on your side is not RAS for them to perform a Terry stop. No Terry stop, no requirement to hand over ID or anything else. "I am not detained? Ok then, have a nice day officer."

    Unless one is acting crazy or threatening, I don't even see how "breach of peace" would be considered.
    (Of course, I am finding from this site and others, common sense does not always prevail)
    It is not valid at all. This is a settled fact in CT and across the nation. It is a common misconception amongst citizens and LEOs though.

    I run into people with faces and t-shirts that I find disturbing and offensive, but I don't see the need to involve the police.
    And if a person is disturbed by your race when you walk into an establishment, they have no recourse either, so I fail to see why they think they can do anything about my lawful action either.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    One of you all needs to raise the issue with a CT lawyer re these seizures to check permits - where is the reasonable suspicion that you were not licensed in order to justify the seizure?
    We are certainly working on this. Unfortunately, we have so far gotten no support from any of the organizations here in CT.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keanu View Post
    Do I understand that turning over your Permit and/or Driver's License is not mandatory in these instances?
    I can not even see a Terry Stop being germane as no "suspicious activity" or probable cause is present.
    Logically, they don't ask for someone's driver's license just because they are behind the wheel of a vehicle.
    (re: "we need to make sure your license is in order...")

    Unless one is acting crazy or threatening, I don't even see how "breach of peace" would be considered.
    (Of course, I am finding from this site and others, common sense does not always prevail)

    I run into people with faces and t-shirts that I find disturbing and offensive, but I don't see the need to involve the police.
    Connecticut Constitution, Article I, § 15
    “Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state.”
    http://www.cslib.org/constitutionala...nstitution.htm
    [Self-defense right explicitly protected.]

    Disorderly Conduct
    HTTP://www.lawserver.com/law/state/C...atutes_53a-182
    § 53a-182 - Disorderly conduct: Class C misdemeanor
    (a) A person is guilty of disorderly conduct when, with intent to cause inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, such person:
    (1) Engages in fighting or in violent, tumultuous or threatening behavior; or
    (2) by offensive or disorderly conduct, annoys or interferes with another person; or
    (3) makes unreasonable noise; or
    (4) without lawful authority, disturbs any lawful assembly or meeting of persons; or
    (5) obstructs vehicular or pedestrian traffic; or
    (6) congregates with other persons in a public place and refuses to comply with a reasonable official request or order to disperse; or (7) commits simple trespass, as provided in section 53a-110a, and observes, in other than a casual or cursory manner, another person
    (A) without the knowledge or consent of such other person,
    (B) while such other person is inside a dwelling, as defined in section 53a-100, and not in plain view, and
    (C) under circumstances where such other person has a reasonable expectation of privacy.
    (b) Disorderly conduct is a class C misdemeanor.

    Stop and Identify
    Connecticut has no "Stop and Identify" statute. (To the best of my knowledge.)

    I've found LawServer to be Very handy in finding applicable laws.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 10-20-2010 at 02:13 PM.

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