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Thread: No weapons allowed on company property ?

  1. #1
    Regular Member powershooter's Avatar
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    No weapons allowed on company property ?

    So here is the quick verson , I recieved written notice from the company I work for today that states they have a zero tolerance weapons policy . In the notice it says you may not even have a weapon , firearm , or ammunition in your personal vehicle when on company property . It also states that they reserve the right search for such items in personal vehicle at anytime . There are no alternative places for me to park . I have a Va. issued CCP . Do I have the right to conceal in my personal vehicle while I am at work or do I have to leave my weapon at home ? I value my 2nd Ammendment Right more than I value the job which I have been emlpoyed at less than 6 months . Any help with this problem would be great . Thank you everyone , Powershooter .

    P.S. It will be tomarrow night be for I can reply , Thanks .

  2. #2
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    At this point, you have no recourse whatsoever. There were efforts last session to pass a law allowing you to store a gun in your car on company property, but by the end it was so watered down as to be useless, and it didn't pass anyway.

    TFred

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    Regular Member powershooter's Avatar
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    Thanks for the information , looks like I am in the job market again .

  4. #4
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Just for your own reference and to confirm, see Paragraph O. of the CHP law:

    O. The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property.

    TFred

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powershooter View Post
    I have a Va. issued CCP
    VA issues CHP's.
    Welcome to the forum. Sorry to be a hard ass, but educate yourself, and learn the laws.. then when you "quote" things you will have more credibility. Read the forums and use the search function.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    What kind of work do you do?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    You're question has already been answered so I won't get into that.

    This is at looked into every legislative year.

    There have been bills introduced that will allow legally owned guns to be kept in your car despite the owners wishes and there is a very good chance of passage if it can get past certain committees in the General Assembly.

    If you are not a VCDL Member, you should be because that's where the Bills will originate.

    Your CHP is irrelevant That's a permit giving you a privilege to conceal a handgun on your person, not a VIP Card..Asking the General Assembly to only grant CHP's the privilege to over rule private property rights for CHP's only, will be met with active resistance by many Pro Gun people in the State.
    That is counter productive!
    Last edited by peter nap; 10-19-2010 at 04:59 AM.

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    What about Public Property? Does VCDL have a plan to work on allowing public employees to defend themselves from their homes to their place of work if their place of business has restrictions on weapons in vehicles?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElW75 View Post
    What about Public Property? Does VCDL have a plan to work on allowing public employees to defend themselves from their homes to their place of work if their place of business has restrictions on weapons in vehicles?
    You need to direct that question to VCDL.
    I am a lowly member only and have no idea what's on the burner this year.

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    We had one of our company lawyers come into our office a few weeks ago to field any questions that we might have.

    She then decides to review some of the rules, including the No Guns policy...but she had to editorialize: "I don't understand why anyone would feel a need to do this."

    So I helped her out.

    "This rule is an acknowledgment that something bad may happen here. The rule protects the business. Who protects us?"

    But, unlike the OP, I value my job, so I shut up after that.

    Then she said that we must keep them in our cars. The policy states "on the premises," so I was glad to have our lawyer state that the parking lot did not fall into that definition. At least her editorializing had a benefit.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElW75 View Post
    What about Public Property? Does VCDL have a plan to work on allowing public employees to defend themselves from their homes to their place of work if their place of business has restrictions on weapons in vehicles?
    Much would depend on the wording of such a bill - work place, employee parking, private property owner, employer rules and other verbiage - as the actual choice of words could dramatically impact the final offering.

    Then there is the problem with the new extra legal "death star" committee - they vote NO before hearing the bill
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 10-19-2010 at 07:09 AM. Reason: correct
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    INAL, so I'll state that right up front.

    I may be incorrect with this, but I don't think your company has the right to search your car. They can search your personal belongs such as briefcases, bags, etc, upon your entrance into the build but I'm pretty sure you car is off limits to them. And look at it this way. Even if the believed they could search your car, you would have to be present for them to gain access. Simply refuse such access and if necessary, get in your car and drive away. Of course, actions such as this may very well lead to dismissal so it's a toss up. But the again, you said you value your rights over your job so in the end, this is not a serious issue for you.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    INAL, so I'll state that right up front.

    I may be incorrect with this, but I don't think your company has the right to search your car. They can search your personal belongs such as briefcases, bags, etc, upon your entrance into the build but I'm pretty sure you car is off limits to them. And look at it this way. Even if the believed they could search your car, you would have to be present for them to gain access. Simply refuse such access and if necessary, get in your car and drive away. Of course, actions such as this may very well lead to dismissal so it's a toss up. But the again, you said you value your rights over your job so in the end, this is not a serious issue for you.
    I think what you'll find is they do not have the right to break into the car or even force a search with you there.

    What they DO have the right to do under Va Right to Work Laws, is fire an employee for any reason or no reason at all, that does not violate Civil Rights Laws.

    Going along with company rules is always a personal decision everyone has to make for themselves. If the OP doesn't have any responsibilities to worry about, ignoring the rule or just resigning, may be the best route for him to follow.

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    I wish the NO GUN signs held no weight, I know a few states that nul and void it, unless federal/school. I think Nevada and Florida are the ones. To bad we cant get that.
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 10-19-2010 at 08:25 AM.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I am very fortunate to have no personal experience with this... It is my understanding that if you resign, you cannot collect unemployment insurance. What about if they fire you for refusing a search?

    TFred

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I am very fortunate to have no personal experience with this... It is my understanding that if you resign, you cannot collect unemployment insurance. What about if they fire you for refusing a search?

    TFred
    Still can't get it TFred.
    You would have been fired for cause. It would be the same as if being fired for stealing or giving away company secrets.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Cool

    I don't know Peter, we fired a guy some years back with DOCUMENTED violations of company operations criteria and professional malfeasance and he was still able to collect.

    Yet when I quit because I had been abused and verbally assaulted/insulted by my supervisor they refused to compensate me.

    Fortunately I found another job in less than a week and was right back in the thick of it.

    Come to find out that company has since gone under, its remaining employees jumping ship, as well as the owners being on the outs... the whole place just collapsed in on itself. Karma's a b*tch.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Still can't get it TFred.
    You would have been fired for cause. It would be the same as if being fired for stealing or giving away company secrets.
    That makes sense. I wonder if there are any established guidelines on what is reasonable cause? What if the company asked to do daily strip searches of your person, and you refused and were fired? Surely no court would view that as a reasonable "cause". Where is that line between reasonable and unreasonable?

    TFred

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    I would think that the case could be made that unless there is a policy in place (and published in an employee handbook, etc) at the time of the occurance that states, "All persons and their belongings entering this facility are subject to search," it is not with cause. Private property rights don't give an individual the right to search someone...you can't arbitrarily search someone simply because they are on your property, neither can a business, unless it is a condition of employment stated beforehand or with cause, as in the case of a shoplifter.

    IANAL, and I guess it would take one well versed in labor laws to say definitively if that's correct.

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    Regular Member DontTreadOnMeVa's Avatar
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    Fired up over this one...

    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    At this point, you have no recourse whatsoever. There were efforts last session to pass a law allowing you to store a gun in your car on company property, but by the end it was so watered down as to be useless, and it didn't pass anyway.

    TFred
    ...and that is why we need a proper parking lot bill passed this year into law! I see the parking lot issue as the biggest hole in our rights/abilities to defend ourselves.

    As someone that deals also with this issue. Not only can I not have my chosen means of defending myself at work , but also to and from work as well(unexceptionable). Never mind the public can OC in my work....I cant even leave a firearm in my car/truck locked up out of sight. So that means, with every stop long the way every day to and from work I am forced to be unarmed by my employer's whim. ...and it is just a whim, they after all allow the public to carry in my work!

    For me, if the parking lot bill is not a major legislative goal from our side this year I will be very disappointed. We almost got it last year, no reason we should not get it this year. Employers should not be disarming employees to and from work, period!
    Last edited by DontTreadOnMeVa; 10-19-2010 at 11:04 AM. Reason: missing text

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    I agree DonTreadOnMeVa, this is one of the most important changes to me as it affects my daily life and my ability to protect myself coming and going from work. This legislation should not be limited to CHP holders as that would severely restrict the number of people it would help and is an arbitrary and vile restriction. Behind this piece of legislation in my priority list is the clarification that state entities are to be considered pre-empted from establishing their own rules on the carriage of firearms.
    Last edited by jmelvin; 10-19-2010 at 11:15 AM.

  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I am very fortunate to have no personal experience with this... It is my understanding that if you resign, you cannot collect unemployment insurance. What about if they fire you for refusing a search?

    TFred
    If they fire you "for cause" (infraction of law, rule or policy), you would likely become ineligible for unemployment benefits. You of course can file an appeal.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I think what you'll find is they do not have the right to break into the car or even force a search with you there.

    What they DO have the right to do under Va Right to Work Laws, is fire an employee for any reason or no reason at all, that does not violate Civil Rights Laws.

    Going along with company rules is always a personal decision everyone has to make for themselves. If the OP doesn't have any responsibilities to worry about, ignoring the rule or just resigning, may be the best route for him to follow.
    Yes sir, I am very much aware of the fact that Virginia is an "employment at will" state. It is, however, interesting that they propose to employees that they reserve the right to search employee vehicles. Do you think this is just an effort at intimidation?
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    Put a safe in your vehicle. That should solve most of your problem.

  25. #25
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRF250rider1000 View Post
    Put a safe in your vehicle. That should solve most of your problem.
    I would submit that if they can force you to open your vehicle to be searched that would include a locked glove compartment, console OR a safe.

    Still you test this by risking dismissal.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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