No weapons allowed on company property ?

powershooter · Oct 18, 2010

So here is the quick verson , I recieved written notice from the company I work for today that states they have a zero tolerance weapons policy . In the notice it says you may not even have a weapon , firearm , or ammunition in your personal vehicle when on company property . It also states that they reserve the right search for such items in personal vehicle at anytime . There are no alternative places for me to park . I have a Va. issued CCP . Do I have the right to conceal in my personal vehicle while I am at work or do I have to leave my weapon at home ? I value my 2nd Ammendment Right more than I value the job which I have been emlpoyed at less than 6 months . Any help with this problem would be great . Thank you everyone , Powershooter .

P.S. It will be tomarrow night be for I can reply , Thanks .

TFred · Oct 18, 2010

At this point, you have no recourse whatsoever. There were efforts last session to pass a law allowing you to store a gun in your car on company property, but by the end it was so watered down as to be useless, and it didn't pass anyway.

TFred

powershooter · Oct 18, 2010

Thanks for the information , looks like I am in the job market again .

TFred · Oct 18, 2010

Just for your own reference and to confirm, see Paragraph O. of the CHP law:

O. The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property.

TFred

ed · Oct 19, 2010

powershooter said:
I have a Va. issued CCP

VA issues CHP's.
Welcome to the forum. Sorry to be a hard ass, but educate yourself, and learn the laws.. then when you "quote" things you will have more credibility. Read the forums and use the search function.

All American Nightmare · Oct 19, 2010

What kind of work do you do?

peter nap · Oct 19, 2010

You're question has already been answered so I won't get into that.

This is at looked into every legislative year.

There have been bills introduced that will allow legally owned guns to be kept in your car despite the owners wishes and there is a very good chance of passage if it can get past certain committees in the General Assembly.

If you are not a VCDL Member, you should be because that's where the Bills will originate.

Your CHP is irrelevant That's a permit giving you a privilege to conceal a handgun on your person, not a VIP Card..Asking the General Assembly to only grant CHP's the privilege to over rule private property rights for CHP's only, will be met with active resistance by many Pro Gun people in the State.
That is counter productive!

ElW75 · Oct 19, 2010

What about Public Property? Does VCDL have a plan to work on allowing public employees to defend themselves from their homes to their place of work if their place of business has restrictions on weapons in vehicles?

peter nap · Oct 19, 2010

ElW75 said:
What about Public Property? Does VCDL have a plan to work on allowing public employees to defend themselves from their homes to their place of work if their place of business has restrictions on weapons in vehicles?

You need to direct that question to VCDL.
I am a lowly member only and have no idea what's on the burner this year.

Glock27Bill · Oct 19, 2010

We had one of our company lawyers come into our office a few weeks ago to field any questions that we might have.

She then decides to review some of the rules, including the No Guns policy...but she had to editorialize: "I don't understand why anyone would feel a need to do this."

So I helped her out.

"This rule is an acknowledgment that something bad may happen here. The rule protects the business. Who protects us?"

But, unlike the OP, I value my job, so I shut up after that.

Then she said that we must keep them in our cars. The policy states "on the premises," so I was glad to have our lawyer state that the parking lot did not fall into that definition. At least her editorializing had a benefit.

Grapeshot · Oct 19, 2010

ElW75 said:
What about Public Property? Does VCDL have a plan to work on allowing public employees to defend themselves from their homes to their place of work if their place of business has restrictions on weapons in vehicles?

Much would depend on the wording of such a bill - work place, employee parking, private property owner, employer rules and other verbiage - as the actual choice of words could dramatically impact the final offering.

Then there is the problem with the new extra legal "death star" committee - they vote NO before hearing the bill :banghead:

SouthernBoy · Oct 19, 2010

INAL, so I'll state that right up front.

I may be incorrect with this, but I don't think your company has the right to search your car. They can search your personal belongs such as briefcases, bags, etc, upon your entrance into the build but I'm pretty sure you car is off limits to them. And look at it this way. Even if the believed they could search your car, you would have to be present for them to gain access. Simply refuse such access and if necessary, get in your car and drive away. Of course, actions such as this may very well lead to dismissal so it's a toss up. But the again, you said you value your rights over your job so in the end, this is not a serious issue for you.

peter nap · Oct 19, 2010

SouthernBoy said:
INAL, so I'll state that right up front.

I may be incorrect with this, but I don't think your company has the right to search your car. They can search your personal belongs such as briefcases, bags, etc, upon your entrance into the build but I'm pretty sure you car is off limits to them. And look at it this way. Even if the believed they could search your car, you would have to be present for them to gain access. Simply refuse such access and if necessary, get in your car and drive away. Of course, actions such as this may very well lead to dismissal so it's a toss up. But the again, you said you value your rights over your job so in the end, this is not a serious issue for you.

I think what you'll find is they do not have the right to break into the car or even force a search with you there.

What they DO have the right to do under Va Right to Work Laws, is fire an employee for any reason or no reason at all, that does not violate Civil Rights Laws.

Going along with company rules is always a personal decision everyone has to make for themselves. If the OP doesn't have any responsibilities to worry about, ignoring the rule or just resigning, may be the best route for him to follow.

ocholsteroc · Oct 19, 2010

I wish the NO GUN signs held no weight, I know a few states that nul and void it, unless federal/school. I think Nevada and Florida are the ones. To bad we cant get that.

TFred · Oct 19, 2010

I am very fortunate to have no personal experience with this... It is my understanding that if you resign, you cannot collect unemployment insurance. What about if they fire you for refusing a search?

TFred

peter nap · Oct 19, 2010

TFred said:
I am very fortunate to have no personal experience with this... It is my understanding that if you resign, you cannot collect unemployment insurance. What about if they fire you for refusing a search?

TFred

Still can't get it TFred.
You would have been fired for cause. It would be the same as if being fired for stealing or giving away company secrets.

wylde007 · Oct 19, 2010

I don't know Peter, we fired a guy some years back with DOCUMENTED violations of company operations criteria and professional malfeasance and he was still able to collect.

Yet when I quit because I had been abused and verbally assaulted/insulted by my supervisor they refused to compensate me.

Fortunately I found another job in less than a week and was right back in the thick of it.

Come to find out that company has since gone under, its remaining employees jumping ship, as well as the owners being on the outs... the whole place just collapsed in on itself. Karma's a b*tch.

TFred · Oct 19, 2010

peter nap said:
Still can't get it TFred.
You would have been fired for cause. It would be the same as if being fired for stealing or giving away company secrets.

That makes sense. I wonder if there are any established guidelines on what is reasonable cause? What if the company asked to do daily strip searches of your person, and you refused and were fired? Surely no court would view that as a reasonable "cause". Where is that line between reasonable and unreasonable?

TFred

fully_armed_biker · Oct 19, 2010

I would think that the case could be made that unless there is a policy in place (and published in an employee handbook, etc) at the time of the occurance that states, "All persons and their belongings entering this facility are subject to search," it is not with cause. Private property rights don't give an individual the right to search someone...you can't arbitrarily search someone simply because they are on your property, neither can a business, unless it is a condition of employment stated beforehand or with cause, as in the case of a shoplifter.

IANAL, and I guess it would take one well versed in labor laws to say definitively if that's correct.

DontTreadOnMeVa · Oct 19, 2010

Fired up over this one...

TFred said:
At this point, you have no recourse whatsoever. There were efforts last session to pass a law allowing you to store a gun in your car on company property, but by the end it was so watered down as to be useless, and it didn't pass anyway.

TFred

...and that is why we need a proper parking lot bill passed this year into law! I see the parking lot issue as the biggest hole in our rights/abilities to defend ourselves.

As someone that deals also with this issue. Not only can I not have my chosen means of defending myself at work , but also to and from work as well(unexceptionable). Never mind the public can OC in my work....I cant even leave a firearm in my car/truck locked up out of sight. So that means, with every stop long the way every day to and from work I am forced to be unarmed by my employer's whim. ...and it is just a whim, they after all allow the public to carry in my work!

For me, if the parking lot bill is not a major legislative goal from our side this year I will be very disappointed. We almost got it last year, no reason we should not get it this year. Employers should not be disarming employees to and from work, period!

No weapons allowed on company property ?

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