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Thoughts about meaning of student in RCW 9.41.280 3(e)

BigDave

BigDave

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joeroket said:
I asked a retired deputy sheriff, hold the flaming, who is a SO at one of the schools at the district I work for. He knew the laws right off the bat and is very pro-carry, to the point he stated that he has no problem with a LAC walking down the street carrying a machine gun if they want because that is not who he worries about.

Anyway he stated that unless it is a school function the pistol must stay in the vehicle. Football practice for the boys and girls club that happens to be on school grounds is not covered under .280 3(e). If it is a school authorized function then by all means exit the vehicle with the pistol but only for the time needed to pick up or drop off said student. He also stated that the student does not have to be your child.
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BigDave said:
Pretty much what I have said with the exception of leaving the vehicle with your gun as I am sure this will vary from Officer or Department to another.
With this portion of interpretation you may well find defending yourself in court.
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joeroket said:
Dave, are you saying that you can never leave your vehicle while carrying on school campus?
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joeroket said:
Nice response to an honest question.
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Not so sure it was an honest question as it is more in line with just wanting to be argumentative.

I stated
  • Pretty much what I have said with the exception of leaving the vehicle with your gun as I am sure this will vary from Officer or Department to another.
  • With this portion of interpretation you may well find defending yourself in court.
basically states if you are going to leave your vehicle while picking up or dropping off a student then leave your weapon secured and out of sight inside the vehicle as one officers view point will not be the same as another or department for that fact, so unless you are willing to take the chance of being cited, leave it in the vehicle as described.

This has been a subject of a coupe threads on this forum to where some felt it is their right to carry at a sporting event since they are there to pick up their children and that will get one into deep do do.
 
OlGutshotWilly

OlGutshotWilly

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BigDave said:
The pretext of the RCW is

(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

(a) Any firearm;

To allow one to pick up and drop off a student they make an allowance for those who posses a CPL,

(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;

It is clear to me anyways it is the intent of the RCW to keep firearms off of school property unless otherwise provided for not to be walking around inside or outside the school.

Trying to find a way around the wording or in an attempt to convince someone or themselves this type of activity is lawful gives fuel to the anti's to exploit the pro gun group.

Would I like to be able to carry everywhere 24/7 you bet and maybe someday we will be able to but for now we have to work through the process and obey the laws along the way.
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Dave,
I am not seeing the part where you have to leave your pistol locked in the car if you get out. 3(e) seems pretty clear. If you have your CPL, you can carry concealed to pick up or drop off your student.

(f) and (g) read you have to leave it in your car if "conducting legitimate business at the school.

I routinely get out of my car and pick my son up at the front doors. I do not cross the big red line designating the entrance to the building, but I AM picking up or dropping off my student, so carry concealed while doing so. I also walk my son to and from school. I do not have a car then. But the law says as long as I am dropping off or picking him up and have the permit I can do so with the weapon concealed on my person. I have every intention of protecting both myself and him on the way to and from school. As well, if we are riding our bikes to school, I also do not have a car. I drop him off, make sure he locks his bike and he goes in the school and I ride home. I am utilizing the law that says I can carry concealed while picking up or dropping him off at school.

The way I read (f) and (g) is if I am going to go inside and conduct business within the school IE: anything other than just picking up or dropping off, I need to lock the pistol in the car as described, and I do so.

If I know ahead of time I need to go inside to conduct legitimate business, I make sure to take the car.

Separately, and not directed at David:
Originally Posted by joeroket
I asked a retired deputy sheriff, hold the flaming, who is a SO at one of the schools at the district I work for. He knew the laws right off the bat and is very pro-carry, to the point he stated that he has no problem with a LAC walking down the street carrying a machine gun if they want because that is not who he worries about.

Anyway he stated that unless it is a school function the pistol must stay in the vehicle. Football practice for the boys and girls club that happens to be on school grounds is not covered under .280 3(e). If it is a school authorized function then by all means exit the vehicle with the pistol but only for the time needed to pick up or drop off said student. He also stated that the student does not have to be your child.
Click to expand...

This is my interpretation as well and what I practice.
 
OlGutshotWilly

OlGutshotWilly

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NavyLT said:
Where does the law limit it to concealed carry?
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LT,
You make a good point. It does say you may only carry to and from school if you have been issued a CPL, but it does NOT specifically state you must concealed carry.

It would seem to make sense that laws would be written to be clearly understood by the average citizens, in order to obey them. But this forum is constantly full of slightly different interpretations of the laws and debated all the time.

It's a wonder more people don't run afoul of the RCW's.

Thank you for the clarification.
 
BigDave

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n15wb said:
Dave,
I am not seeing the part where you have to leave your pistol locked in the car if you get out. 3(e) seems pretty clear. If you have your CPL, you can carry concealed to pick up or drop off your student...

Do to the length of the post,to see his full text click here
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As with anything in life everyone gets to make their choices as they will either benefit or not.

Reading the law, It does appears that one can carry while picking up or dropping of a student at school.
"(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to: (e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;
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Now what is the definition of "picking up and dropping off a student"?

  • Is it walking to where ever they are or are going, say on the football/baseball field?
  • Is it In the parking lot only?
  • How long would be reasonable, a minute or longer?
We know one thing we will not decide this definition and who will? the court or jury will. We just seen first hand on the issue with Josh and how it has came out thus far (hopefully it will be overturned) and all the issues he has had to deal with.

The requirement according to law is just to have a CPL not that the weapon has to be concealed stated you do, why is that is there something telling you maybe you shouldn't?
Could it be
RCW 9.41.270(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.
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I know concealed carry right, well sometimes they do come uncovered and if it is the law then why not open carry?

Yet again this RCW is likely bite someone in the hind quarters and what jury would not agree with you today?
 
H

heresolong

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BigDave said:
Dude it is on topic and now where did Joe post in the thread stating he wanted to pick up his child from a different school
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How about this?

OP said:
What if you are picking up your child from a sporting event that is on school grounds but not the school/district your child is a student. If this is the case must the firearm stay inside the vehicle so you fall under section 3 (f) or (g) which state;
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