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Thread: VDOF is cleaning up the language

  1. #1
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    VDOF is cleaning up the language

    I got this email yesterday"

    Does the change in red font clear up the confusion for you? Thanks.


    4VAC10-30-170. Explosives, fires firearms , etc.
    . 4VAC10-30-170. Explosives, fires firearms , etc.
    No person shall bring into or have in any forest any explosive or explosive substance, other than lawfully possessed ] firearms or ammunition [ . Explosives and ] explosive substances [ other than lawfully possessed ] firearms and ammunition, ] are prohibited in any portion of a forest assigned to the Department of Forestry, for administration as a recreational area
    Last edited by peter nap; 10-19-2010 at 05:25 AM.

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    Oh my god, I'm colorblind!

    j/k

    Are you saying that we may now carry in administrative areas, or that this is proposed language?

  3. #3
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock27Bill View Post
    Oh my god, I'm colorblind!

    j/k

    Are you saying that we may now carry in administrative areas, or that this is proposed language?
    There wasn't any red when I got the email Bill and I just deleted the strike through wording (The strikes didn't show either).

    This is proposed language. If you've been following this, the first filing only allowed permit holders to carry on VDOF property.

    There are some unreasonable people out there that resented that

    The initial proposal went through the comment period and stalled because of ....things.

    A reworded proposal was put together and the wording was confusing even though VDOF insisted it was intended to allow all legally carried firearms in.

    This is better IMO and appears to allow all legal carriers in Recreational areas. There is NO provision that prohibits carry in Administration areas (headquarters, etc), only recreational areas.

    I don't see a problem with this wording but that's just my opinion. It will now need to go through another 30 day comment period and I'm sure there will be a number of them.

    Hopefully Philip or another VCDL Board Member will jump in and give their side of it. I haven't discussed it with them so I don't know their views.

  4. #4
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    No person shall bring into or have in any forest any explosive or explosive substance, other than lawfully possessed ] firearms or ammunition [ . Explosives and ] explosive substances [ other than lawfully possessed ] firearms and ammunition, ] are prohibited in any portion of a forest assigned to the Department of Forestry, for administration as a recreational area

    I don't understand the purpose of the first and the last right-brackets "]". They don't have matching left-brackets "[".

    Other than that, if you remove or ignore all the brackets, and read the text using common English, it appears to me to fully exempt firearms and ammunition from all restrictions that this rule imposes.

    The rule still appears to have redundancy. The first sentence says no explosives "in any forest". The second sentence says no explosives "in any portion of a forest assigned to the Department of Forestry, for administration as a recreational area"

    Unless I am missing something having to do with different kinds of forests, the second phrase is a subset of the first phrase, and is unnecessary. What am I missing?

    It would be like saying "you can't bring a hand-grenade into my house" and then "you can't bring a hand-grenade into the kitchen of my house". Why do you need the second sentence?

    Did the strike-throughs show up properly in your e-mail client? Maybe you could capture and post a screen shot that we can see.

    TFred

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    This is better IMO and appears to allow all legal carriers in Recreational areas. There is NO provision that prohibits carry in Administration areas (headquarters, etc), only recreational areas.

    much better!

  6. #6
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    No person shall bring into or have in any forest any explosive or explosive substance, other than lawfully possessed ] firearms or ammunition [ . Explosives and ] explosive substances [ other than lawfully possessed ] firearms and ammunition, ] are prohibited in any portion of a forest assigned to the Department of Forestry, for administration as a recreational area
    I don't understand the purpose of the first and the last right-brackets "]". They don't have matching left-brackets "[".

    Other than that, if you remove or ignore all the brackets, and read the text using common English, it appears to me to fully exempt firearms and ammunition from all restrictions that this rule imposes.

    The rule still appears to have redundancy. The first sentence says no explosives "in any forest". The second sentence says no explosives "in any portion of a forest assigned to the Department of Forestry, for administration as a recreational area"

    Unless I am missing something having to do with different kinds of forests, the second phrase is a subset of the first phrase, and is unnecessary. What am I missing?

    It would be like saying "you can't bring a hand-grenade into my house" and then "you can't bring a hand-grenade into the kitchen of my house". Why do you need the second sentence?

    Did the strike-throughs show up properly in your e-mail client? Maybe you could capture and post a screen shot that we can see.

    TFred
    Ignore the brackets TFred.They're the result of deleting them at 3AM.
    It is redundant but after beating this thing with an ax handle all summer, I'm satisfied with it.

    You'd be shocked to know what it took to get it this far.
    Last edited by peter nap; 10-19-2010 at 05:43 PM.

  7. #7
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Ignore the brackets TFred.They're the result of deleting them at 3AM.
    It is redundant but after beating this thing with an ax handle all summer, I'm satisfied with it.

    You'd be shocked to know what it took to get it this far.
    Ah, I see, no biggie.

    There isn't anything inherently wrong with redundancy, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.

    Thanks for the update!

    So you expect that this new version will be up for comments soon?

    TFred

  8. #8
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post

    So you expect that this new version will be up for comments soon?

    TFred
    I think before too long. Don't look for comments to start before the elections but Hopefully soon after.
    I could make a soap opera out of this mess and in fact I may after the rest of Kaines papers are transferred to the state library.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I think before too long. Don't look for comments to start before the elections but Hopefully soon after.
    I could make a soap opera out of this mess and in fact I may after the rest of Kaines papers are transferred to the state library.
    Now that will make some very interesting reading!

    The Kaine Papers - sounds like a stage production full of intrigue and suspense.
    Hope we find out whodunit before dessert.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Dang, I was looking forward to blowing up some trees with my stash of C4.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Dang, I was looking forward to blowing up some trees with my stash of C4.
    Pssst - look out front.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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