FatboyCykes
Regular Member
This was a little over a year ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXuvCfzBH_I
That being said....I'm all for another visit
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court date
- Thread starter Evil Creamsicle
- Start date
This was a little over a year ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXuvCfzBH_I
That being said....I'm all for another visit
Michigander
Regular Member
Clearly they don't care about what the law says, and clearly if there were any gun friendly politicians on the council they'd have stepped in by now.
I'm not saying don't go to the council if you have your heart set on it, but I sincerly doubt it will do any good at all.
Hammoneggs needs to get the suit straightened out, and there will probably need to be others. They've certainly earned that much. Warren is one of the first cities we contacted to correct its abusive actions, and years later they are still at it. We're talking about a group of people with some who openly defy laws, and disregard potential consequences. The term lawlessness may be a bit much, but certainly I think that the time for us to give them courteous descriptions of problems with ideas for solutions has come and gone.
So again, go to a meeting if you want, but I believe it will amount to a fruitless ******* match.
Evil Creamsicle
Regular Member
Thanks for the support guys.
Army, I'll pm you
Michigander, it got thrown out by the city attorney. All the judge did was, as you say, 'slam the gavel down'
As far as what its about... there are some 'additional details' I can't disclose but here's the encounter:
I was at Buddy's Pizza in Warren, on Van Dyke, pretty close to the cop shop actually. I was with my band having pizza [bastards... i'm not in that band anymore, but thats another story]. I was open carrying, since, while I don't believe they make a majority of their income from the bar there, I wasn't sure so figured I ought to play it safe. Long story short the cops show up, spouting off nonsense about how this 'isn't the wild west', and try and tell me that OC in and of itself is a CPL violation. Then they cite this college textbook that has incomplete summaries of a couple MCLs and try to tell me I can't carry there because its a PFZ, ignoring the CPL exception.
They ended up kicking me out, saying it was 'talk in the parking lot or I'll take your gun'
Outside, the Sergeant then asked me “Do you understand that you were breaking the law by carrying in there?”
I was silent.
He repeated his question
I was silent.
He asked me “Do you have any questions about what I'm telling you”
I responded with “I do not have any questions, but I refuse to answer your previous question”
The Sergeant then tried to reiterate that it is a CPL violation to be open carrying, which is not true.
He then reasserted that the ticket I was being written was for a CPL violation, and that it was a $500 fine and a six month CPL suspension.
He then said “You should know the laws before you go out and carry a gun”
I replied “I do”
The Sergeant appeared visibly agitated by my remark, started to make a comment, and walked away to his car. He then said “If you did then you wouldn't be here getting a ticket” and walked away
I replied “That remains to be seen”
He got visibly p/o'd and walked off huffing.
In the notes, on the ticket, it said "XD .45acp RT HIP NOT CONCEALED"....
Initially the ticket was written for 'miscellaneous civil infraction 1st offense CPL violation'
I didn't figure out until today what I was actually cited for. You guys will like this...
28.425f subsection 5(a), which reads:
(5) An individual who violates subsection (3) is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined as follows:
(a) For a first offense, by a fine of not more than $500.00 or by the individual's license to carry a concealed pistol being suspended for 6 months, or both.
...this is what I was cited for. How can you be cited for a description...? it blows my mind how stupid this is.
Not to mention I was finished talking to the cops, and on my way with my business, at around 9:35, and this statute was not entered into the citation records until 10:30. The cop took a whole hour trying to figure out what he was citing me for, and still couldn't at least pick a statute that its actually possible to violate.
W!
T!
F!
Army, I'll pm you
Michigander, it got thrown out by the city attorney. All the judge did was, as you say, 'slam the gavel down'
As far as what its about... there are some 'additional details' I can't disclose but here's the encounter:
I was at Buddy's Pizza in Warren, on Van Dyke, pretty close to the cop shop actually. I was with my band having pizza [bastards... i'm not in that band anymore, but thats another story]. I was open carrying, since, while I don't believe they make a majority of their income from the bar there, I wasn't sure so figured I ought to play it safe. Long story short the cops show up, spouting off nonsense about how this 'isn't the wild west', and try and tell me that OC in and of itself is a CPL violation. Then they cite this college textbook that has incomplete summaries of a couple MCLs and try to tell me I can't carry there because its a PFZ, ignoring the CPL exception.
They ended up kicking me out, saying it was 'talk in the parking lot or I'll take your gun'
Outside, the Sergeant then asked me “Do you understand that you were breaking the law by carrying in there?”
I was silent.
He repeated his question
I was silent.
He asked me “Do you have any questions about what I'm telling you”
I responded with “I do not have any questions, but I refuse to answer your previous question”
The Sergeant then tried to reiterate that it is a CPL violation to be open carrying, which is not true.
He then reasserted that the ticket I was being written was for a CPL violation, and that it was a $500 fine and a six month CPL suspension.
He then said “You should know the laws before you go out and carry a gun”
I replied “I do”
The Sergeant appeared visibly agitated by my remark, started to make a comment, and walked away to his car. He then said “If you did then you wouldn't be here getting a ticket” and walked away
I replied “That remains to be seen”
He got visibly p/o'd and walked off huffing.
In the notes, on the ticket, it said "XD .45acp RT HIP NOT CONCEALED"....
Initially the ticket was written for 'miscellaneous civil infraction 1st offense CPL violation'
I didn't figure out until today what I was actually cited for. You guys will like this...
28.425f subsection 5(a), which reads:
(5) An individual who violates subsection (3) is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined as follows:
(a) For a first offense, by a fine of not more than $500.00 or by the individual's license to carry a concealed pistol being suspended for 6 months, or both.
...this is what I was cited for. How can you be cited for a description...? it blows my mind how stupid this is.
Not to mention I was finished talking to the cops, and on my way with my business, at around 9:35, and this statute was not entered into the citation records until 10:30. The cop took a whole hour trying to figure out what he was citing me for, and still couldn't at least pick a statute that its actually possible to violate.
W!
T!
F!
lapeer20m
Regular Member
Did you hire a lawyer or go it alone?
Generaldet
Regular Member
Michigander, I'm with you all the way. I sent you a pm to clarify my point.
sultan62
Regular Member
Thanks for the update--it's good to hear what happened so we get more of an idea what can happen.
I'm glad it worked out for you, and I wish you luck if you decide to pursue it further.
DanM
Regular Member
I don't know what EC did, but you don't need a lawyer until you need a lawyer. And, in a case like EC's, you only need a lawyer if the prosecutor indicates at your initial appearance that he won't drop the charge, the judge asks how you plead, and you plead not guilty. Then go hire a lawyer. You can save yourself money if you wait to hire a lawyer only when you need a lawyer.
Generally, when do you need a lawyer in a case where you are the defendant or respondent?
--If you are going to communicate with the police or prosecutor. Let an attorney do that.
--If you are going to communicate to a judge, a court, or a jury, beyond a plea of "not guilty". Let an attorney do anything else.
--If a court appearance may result possibly in bond or incarceration and bail arrangements. Let an attorney handle negotiating that. A good attorney may be able to keep you free or keep bail to a minimum.
Evil Creamsicle
Regular Member
Well, I had a very enthusiastic lawyer who decided to take it for what I'll call an 'affordable price'
malignity
Regular Member
That sounds like Dean Greenblatt to me. Is that who you used out of curiosity? He's big time pro-OC, and has been known to 'negotiate' costs to an affordable level.
HankT
State Researcher
EC, sounds like you handled the situation very well.
Too bad the LEO was so, uhm, limited.
Why can't/won't you disclose the "additional details?"
What the heck is that all about?
Too bad the LEO was so, uhm, limited.
Why can't/won't you disclose the "additional details?"
What the heck is that all about?
scot623
Regular Member
Because not everything is fit for public consumption. Sometimes situations(or parts of) are best kept private.
Evil Creamsicle
Regular Member
what he said.
Or put into other words:
Just because you have a nuclear bomb, does that mean you should use it?
Or put into other words:
Just because you have a nuclear bomb, does that mean you should use it?
malignity
Regular Member
It depends on if you're talking about the middle east.
..."Big sandy place, make it a glass parking-lot... dooo op op op, doooooo op op op..."
You never did answer my question; who was your lawyer?
Evil Creamsicle
Regular Member
Attachments
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malignity
Regular Member
lol good deal.
Dean's a great guy from what I hear. I know what he's done for TheSzerdi, good to know he's just as willing to help you out too. He's become the lawyer on my speed dial. The guy's knowledgeable and damn good, that's for sure.
Dean's a great guy from what I hear. I know what he's done for TheSzerdi, good to know he's just as willing to help you out too. He's become the lawyer on my speed dial. The guy's knowledgeable and damn good, that's for sure.
