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Thread: Carry on NOVA campus

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    Carry on NOVA campus

    So my friend was pulled over last night by NVCC campus police for an illegal turn. I don't know the ins and outs of how that works out legally. But the problem is that he did what he thought at the time was the responsible thing by informing the officer that he had a gun on his seat. The cop asked to hold and unload the gun while my friend looked for his registration and my friend agreed. I'm not looking to get moral comments on whether that was wrong or right.

    The problem is that although the officer let him go with a warning on the illegal turn my friend today received a phone call from the campus judicial office asking that he come in tomorrow to discuss the incident. He is a student and they most likely want to discuss him having a prohibitted firearm on campus property.

    How should he present himself tomorrow?

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    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    LEGALLY he did nothing wrong except for the U turn. Basically he is at the mercy of the student code that NOVA has for having a firearm on campus. The maximum that could happen would be that NOVA expels him. I would read the code that NOVA has on firearms and see how to get around it. If that fails, I would plead to them that you forgot that it was in your car or something. Make sure they know that it was an accident/mistake and suck up to them. Hopefully they aren't anti and have a heart.

    Maybe try to say that he made the U turn trying to leave campus as he suddenly realized that he was carrying on campus. (I would go with this personally)
    Last edited by CRF250rider1000; 10-19-2010 at 07:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CRF250rider1000 View Post
    LEGALLY he did nothing wrong except for the U turn. Basically he is at the mercy of the student code that NOVA has for having a firearm on campus. The maximum that could happen would be that NOVA expels him. I would read the code that NOVA has on firearms and see how to get around it. If that fails, I would plead to them that you forgot that it was in your car or something. Make sure they know that it was an accident/mistake and suck up to them. Hopefully they aren't anti and have a heart.

    Maybe try to say that he made the U turn trying to leave campus as he suddenly realized that he was carrying on campus. (I would go with this personally)
    Ask them to wait until after the GMU lawsuit is decided. It would be crappy to be expelled now only to have college carry bans overturned in a few months
    Last edited by nova; 10-19-2010 at 07:28 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    Ask them to wait until after the GMU lawsuit is decided. It would be crappy to be expelled now only to have college carry bans overturned in a few months
    I think he needs to go in with his hat in his hand and tell it like it was.
    My guess is that he would need to go before the Jboard before being disciplined and unless he's had trouble before, I doubt he'll be expelled or even suspended.

    Hopefully, he'll get off with a warning and maybe a stern letter of reprimand.

    Being expelled or even suspended from college is serious though. Being expelled or suspended for a firearms violation could keep him in McDonald's the rest of his life.

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    I can't see this meeting going very well for your friend. The current NVCC policy is pretty clear.
    Here is the NOVA student handbook: http://www.nvcc.edu/resources/stuhan...thb2009-11.pdf

    Under "Student Rights and Responsibilities":

    Section II - 10. Possessing on College property or at any College activity any dangerous chemical or explosive elements or component parts thereof, rifle, shotgun, pistol, revolver, or other firearm or weapon not used for lawful College studies without an authorization of the president of the College. The only exception applies to law enforcement officers. While civilian attired law enforcement officers have the authority to carry firearms, they must keep them concealed so as not to alarm others.

    The only very small bit of wiggle room I see is this:

    Section III: Student Disciplinary Policies and Procedures Disciplinary Procedures
    The campus dean of students is responsible for the administration of disciplinary procedures. Allegations of violations of College policy are accepted for consideration only when the apparent infractions are observed on College property or other locations where the College provides services. Infractions of federal, state or local laws occurring off campus shall be the sole concern of the civil authorities except when such actions: (1) directly affect the health, safety, or security of the College community, (2) affect the College’s pursuit of its educational purposes, or (3) occur as a direct result of a College-connected disruption. Reports of alleged student violations may be submitted by any individual to the dean of students.

    I know that, at the Annandale campus, the campus police pull over cars all the time on the roads adjacent to the school property. Depending on where exactly your friend was pulled over, and what exactly the cop saw him do, he might be able to argue that he was not on school property at the time, and that they can not prove that he in fact had the gun in his vehicle on campus. It might be a longshot, but I don't see the school letting this go with a warning. I think that we all know the general feelings of college administrators these days regarding anything to do with guns on campus.

    However this goes, I'd really like to know what happens. If this turns into another lawsuit, I'll be particularly interested.

    BTW, which campus was this at?

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I think he needs to go in with his hat in his hand and tell it like it was.
    My guess is that he would need to go before the Jboard before being disciplined and unless he's had trouble before, I doubt he'll be expelled or even suspended.

    Hopefully, he'll get off with a warning and maybe a stern letter of reprimand.

    Being expelled or even suspended from college is serious though. Being expelled or suspended for a firearms violation could keep him in McDonald's the rest of his life.
    I really like your optimism, but do you really think that they will be that easy on him? I currently attend a Virginia institution of higher education, and, I'm sure others will back me up on this, there seems to be, in the wake of VT and other incidents, a hypersensitivity to "campus safety" issues, which is what they will view this as.

    Mistake, oversight of the rules, or just bad luck, regarless of his excuse or explanation, I think that the college will try to put his head on a platter in order to prove that they are taking "campus safety" seriously.
    Last edited by VApatriot; 10-19-2010 at 08:46 PM.

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Suggestions (Having gone through a University Judicial System):

    Bring an attorney to the meeting if feasible. This is a big [EDITED BY MODERATOR] deal(tm). Expulsion for a firearms rule violation will likely have a terrible and lasting effect upon the defendant.
    One is neither required nor is it likely encouraged (or prohibited) by the University but I can't see it hurting his cause. If they are aware of the GMU case, the presence of one might be enough to take expulsion off the table.

    Have a plan; present the story appropriately
    I don't know the details of the judicial process at the university in question but I do know that I had to appeal twice, and directly confront my accusers (successfully). It consumed my time for a week and a half and I got next to no school work done.

    Get the defendant's act together and put a stop to him giving up his rights. I could use some pretty harsh language here but I'll forgo that for now.
    Last edited by t33j; 10-19-2010 at 09:05 PM.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VApatriot View Post
    I really like your optimism, but do you really think that they will be that easy on him? I currently attend a Virginia institution of higher education, and, I'm sure others will back me up on this, there seems to be, in the wake of VT and other incidents, a hypersensitivity to "campus safety" issues, which is what they will view this as.

    Mistake, oversight of the rules, or just bad luck, regarless of his excuse or explanation, I think that the college will try to put his head on a platter in order to prove that they are taking "campus safety" seriously.
    You may be right. Remember, I haven't been in College since 1972. It wouldn't have been a big deal then.... but the world has gone to Hell.

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    If he happens to get expelled, which I hope is not the case, then have him look at Blue Ridge Community College. They allow students to carry on campus (or at least they used to), so I would imagine that they would welcome him with open arms.

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    Reading this thread makes my blood boil in my veins. The thought that some entity set up and paid for by the people of the commonwealth to serve the people can restrict the rights of the people to protect themselves is nothing less than sickening! This adult student is likely attending this college so that he can provide for himself and be a good useful citizen, but may be punished for daring to arm himself as a responsible man does.

    Those college administrators and board members that allow this type of policy to be in place are of no better ilk than the scum who would purposefully come take the student's life themself. These administrators' policies encourage crime and provide a catalyst for evil to be worked.

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    those college administrators and board members that allow this type of policy to be in place are of no better ilk than the scum who would purposefully come take the student's life themself. These administrators' policies encourage crime and provide a catalyst for evil to be worked.
    qft
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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    OT. The CC has honest to God sworn cops? My 2 local CCs don't even have armed security!
    Last edited by paramedic70002; 10-20-2010 at 06:52 AM.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    The CC has honest to God sworn cops?
    Yep. And they have full authority to enforce all laws of the state on campus and within 300 yards or something like that.. I'd have to find the cite. I've read it before after reading the NVCC websire:

    "All NOVA police officers are fully trained, state certified by the Department of Criminal Justice Services of the Commonwealth of Virginia and sworn. Their jurisdiction covers all property owned and controlled by NOVA -- its streets, sidewalks and highways immediately adjacent to each campus. All sworn officers shall preserve the public peace, protect life and property, enforce and uphold the laws of the Commonwealth of Virginia. NOVA police officers patrol the campuses and are available to respond to calls 24 hours a day, seven days a week. They have authority to make arrests and carry firearms. They receive training at the Northern Virginia Criminal Academy in all aspects of law enforcement. "
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VApatriot View Post
    I know that, at the Annandale campus, the campus police pull over cars all the time on the roads adjacent to the school property. Depending on where exactly your friend was pulled over, and what exactly the cop saw him do, he might be able to argue that he was not on school property at the time, and that they can not prove that he in fact had the gun in his vehicle on campus.
    However, isn't it true that the public highways adjacent to the college property are not under the control of and therefore are to be treated like any other highway in the state? Example. I could freely walk down the sidewalk next to the college, openly carrying a sidearm and there would be nothing the college rent-a-cops could do about it. Or if a firearm was laying on a seat in my car and one of them happened to see it, too bad. I am acting within my rights and am untouchable by doing this.

    Am I correct in assuming this? And doesn't the same hold true for GMU?
    Last edited by SouthernBoy; 10-20-2010 at 08:08 AM.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Example. I could freely walk down the sidewalk next to the college, openly carrying a sidearm and there would be nothing the college rent-a-cops could do about it.
    I do that just about every day. You could be *on* campus as you are not a student. You'd probably just be hassled by the cops about it.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t33j View Post
    I do that just about every day. You could be *on* campus as you are not a student. You'd probably just be hassled by the cops about it.
    In that case you tell them to leave you alone because you are on public property and they can't do anything. haha

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    GMU police are pretty educated on OC and don't bother from what I've seen, even on campus. Off campus, I've OC'd in sight of GMU officers and they never looked twice.

    yes I realize that ODU is not GMU and Norfolk is not Fairfax.
    Still, my experiences mirror yours... for the most part
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Rich did your friend find himself a lawyer for this discussion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    Yep. And they have full authority to enforce all laws of the state on campus and within 300 yards or something like that.. I'd have to find the cite. I've read it before after reading the NVCC websire:

    "All NOVA police officers are fully trained, state certified by the Department of Criminal Justice Services of the Commonwealth of Virginia and sworn. Their jurisdiction covers all property owned and controlled by NOVA -- its streets, sidewalks and highways immediately adjacent to each campus. All sworn officers shall preserve the public peace, protect life and property, enforce and uphold the laws of the Commonwealth of Virginia. NOVA police officers patrol the campuses and are available to respond to calls 24 hours a day, seven days a week. They have authority to make arrests and carry firearms. They receive training at the Northern Virginia Criminal Academy in all aspects of law enforcement. "

    Funny how they are sworn to protect the laws of the Commonwealth even when the school policies are against the laws.

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    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    We need to get some folks on the boards of visitors of these colleges and universities.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    We need to get some folks on the boards of visitors of these colleges and universities.
    And that is where McDonnell should be helping!

    TFred

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    Yep. And they have full authority to enforce all laws of the state on campus and within 300 yards or something like that.. I'd have to find the cite. I've read it before after reading the NVCC websire:

    "All NOVA police officers are fully trained, state certified by the Department of Criminal Justice Services of the Commonwealth of Virginia and sworn. Their jurisdiction covers all property owned and controlled by NOVA -- its streets, sidewalks and highways immediately adjacent to each campus. All sworn officers shall preserve the public peace, protect life and property, enforce and uphold the laws of the Commonwealth of Virginia. NOVA police officers patrol the campuses and are available to respond to calls 24 hours a day, seven days a week. They have authority to make arrests and carry firearms. They receive training at the Northern Virginia Criminal Academy in all aspects of law enforcement. "
    Raises an interesting question... I don't see anything in that paragraph about enforcing the school's policies, and while the officer in this event did not do anything beyond what it appears they are legally allowed to do, they clearly informed the school of the policy violation. Hmm.

    TFred

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    We need to get some folks on the boards of visitors of these colleges and universities.
    They are appointed: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+23-49.14
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Just wanted to say thanks guys for all the helpful advice.
    I decided to go in yesterday to go in and feel it out - I had a pretty good feeling about things because the police did not even mention anything of this sort to me when I was stopped.
    The short of the story is I met with the Judicial counselor (not sure if that's his exact title) and he said he needed to call me in to give me a verbal warning and that I was not in any sort of the trouble at the time, to "just leave it at home". He said that the cops were so impressed at how respectful and open I was with them and that they really appreciated that.
    Bottom Line: I need to find some off campus parking!

  25. #25
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    This all brings to mind an incident that I remember from many years ago when I was a student at NVCC (Annandale was my home campus). There had been a rash of attacks on women who were taking evening classes. They were attacked when heading to their cars after class, late at night. Several rapes were the result of these attacks. At the time, I was taking a psychology class (ugh, but required), and one of the students was also a campus cop. He had caught the perp, at gun point as I recall.

    Now had these ladies been armed, the results may have been different but alas, the nutso-feminazis would have had cows with the thought of a woman carrying a firearm and, God forbid, actually have used it to thwart an attack. Schools, be they primary, secondary, or higher ed, are beautiful target-rich environments for those bent on having a field day at the expense of innocent lives. The alter of contemporary agenda has room for the corpses of those who have been denied their natural and God-given right to defense. The ignorance of calling for more restrictions and controls after such attacks on our school campuses borders on criminal. When will these fools learn that they are feeding the beast?
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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