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Carry on NOVA campus

richarcm

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Richmond, VA
So my friend was pulled over last night by NVCC campus police for an illegal turn. I don't know the ins and outs of how that works out legally. But the problem is that he did what he thought at the time was the responsible thing by informing the officer that he had a gun on his seat. The cop asked to hold and unload the gun while my friend looked for his registration and my friend agreed. I'm not looking to get moral comments on whether that was wrong or right.

The problem is that although the officer let him go with a warning on the illegal turn my friend today received a phone call from the campus judicial office asking that he come in tomorrow to discuss the incident. He is a student and they most likely want to discuss him having a prohibitted firearm on campus property.

How should he present himself tomorrow?
 

CRF250rider1000

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LEGALLY he did nothing wrong except for the U turn. Basically he is at the mercy of the student code that NOVA has for having a firearm on campus. The maximum that could happen would be that NOVA expels him. I would read the code that NOVA has on firearms and see how to get around it. If that fails, I would plead to them that you forgot that it was in your car or something. Make sure they know that it was an accident/mistake and suck up to them. Hopefully they aren't anti and have a heart.

Maybe try to say that he made the U turn trying to leave campus as he suddenly realized that he was carrying on campus. (I would go with this personally)
 
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nova

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LEGALLY he did nothing wrong except for the U turn. Basically he is at the mercy of the student code that NOVA has for having a firearm on campus. The maximum that could happen would be that NOVA expels him. I would read the code that NOVA has on firearms and see how to get around it. If that fails, I would plead to them that you forgot that it was in your car or something. Make sure they know that it was an accident/mistake and suck up to them. Hopefully they aren't anti and have a heart.

Maybe try to say that he made the U turn trying to leave campus as he suddenly realized that he was carrying on campus. (I would go with this personally)

Ask them to wait until after the GMU lawsuit is decided. It would be crappy to be expelled now only to have college carry bans overturned in a few months :(
 
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peter nap

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Ask them to wait until after the GMU lawsuit is decided. It would be crappy to be expelled now only to have college carry bans overturned in a few months :(

I think he needs to go in with his hat in his hand and tell it like it was.
My guess is that he would need to go before the Jboard before being disciplined and unless he's had trouble before, I doubt he'll be expelled or even suspended.

Hopefully, he'll get off with a warning and maybe a stern letter of reprimand.

Being expelled or even suspended from college is serious though. Being expelled or suspended for a firearms violation could keep him in McDonald's the rest of his life.
 

VApatriot

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I can't see this meeting going very well for your friend. The current NVCC policy is pretty clear.
Here is the NOVA student handbook: http://www.nvcc.edu/resources/stuhandbook/studenthb2009-11.pdf

Under "Student Rights and Responsibilities":

Section II - 10. Possessing on College property or at any College activity any dangerous chemical or explosive elements or component parts thereof, rifle, shotgun, pistol, revolver, or other firearm or weapon not used for lawful College studies without an authorization of the president of the College. The only exception applies to law enforcement officers. While civilian attired law enforcement officers have the authority to carry firearms, they must keep them concealed so as not to alarm others.

The only very small bit of wiggle room I see is this:

Section III: Student Disciplinary Policies and Procedures Disciplinary Procedures
The campus dean of students is responsible for the administration of disciplinary procedures. Allegations of violations of College policy are accepted for consideration only when the apparent infractions are observed on College property or other locations where the College provides services. Infractions of federal, state or local laws occurring off campus shall be the sole concern of the civil authorities except when such actions: (1) directly affect the health, safety, or security of the College community, (2) affect the College’s pursuit of its educational purposes, or (3) occur as a direct result of a College-connected disruption. Reports of alleged student violations may be submitted by any individual to the dean of students.

I know that, at the Annandale campus, the campus police pull over cars all the time on the roads adjacent to the school property. Depending on where exactly your friend was pulled over, and what exactly the cop saw him do, he might be able to argue that he was not on school property at the time, and that they can not prove that he in fact had the gun in his vehicle on campus. It might be a longshot, but I don't see the school letting this go with a warning. I think that we all know the general feelings of college administrators these days regarding anything to do with guns on campus.

However this goes, I'd really like to know what happens. If this turns into another lawsuit, I'll be particularly interested.

BTW, which campus was this at?
 

VApatriot

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I think he needs to go in with his hat in his hand and tell it like it was.
My guess is that he would need to go before the Jboard before being disciplined and unless he's had trouble before, I doubt he'll be expelled or even suspended.

Hopefully, he'll get off with a warning and maybe a stern letter of reprimand.

Being expelled or even suspended from college is serious though. Being expelled or suspended for a firearms violation could keep him in McDonald's the rest of his life.

I really like your optimism, but do you really think that they will be that easy on him? I currently attend a Virginia institution of higher education, and, I'm sure others will back me up on this, there seems to be, in the wake of VT and other incidents, a hypersensitivity to "campus safety" issues, which is what they will view this as.

Mistake, oversight of the rules, or just bad luck, regarless of his excuse or explanation, I think that the college will try to put his head on a platter in order to prove that they are taking "campus safety" seriously.
 
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t33j

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King George, VA
Suggestions (Having gone through a University Judicial System):

Bring an attorney to the meeting if feasible. This is a big [EDITED BY MODERATOR] deal(tm). Expulsion for a firearms rule violation will likely have a terrible and lasting effect upon the defendant.
One is neither required nor is it likely encouraged (or prohibited) by the University but I can't see it hurting his cause. If they are aware of the GMU case, the presence of one might be enough to take expulsion off the table.

Have a plan; present the story appropriately
I don't know the details of the judicial process at the university in question but I do know that I had to appeal twice, and directly confront my accusers (successfully). It consumed my time for a week and a half and I got next to no school work done.

Get the defendant's act together and put a stop to him giving up his rights. I could use some pretty harsh language here but I'll forgo that for now.
 
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peter nap

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I really like your optimism, but do you really think that they will be that easy on him? I currently attend a Virginia institution of higher education, and, I'm sure others will back me up on this, there seems to be, in the wake of VT and other incidents, a hypersensitivity to "campus safety" issues, which is what they will view this as.

Mistake, oversight of the rules, or just bad luck, regarless of his excuse or explanation, I think that the college will try to put his head on a platter in order to prove that they are taking "campus safety" seriously.

You may be right. Remember, I haven't been in College since 1972. It wouldn't have been a big deal then.... but the world has gone to Hell.
 

hunter45

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Dec 6, 2008
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If he happens to get expelled, which I hope is not the case, then have him look at Blue Ridge Community College. They allow students to carry on campus (or at least they used to), so I would imagine that they would welcome him with open arms.
 

jmelvin

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Reading this thread makes my blood boil in my veins. The thought that some entity set up and paid for by the people of the commonwealth to serve the people can restrict the rights of the people to protect themselves is nothing less than sickening! This adult student is likely attending this college so that he can provide for himself and be a good useful citizen, but may be punished for daring to arm himself as a responsible man does.

Those college administrators and board members that allow this type of policy to be in place are of no better ilk than the scum who would purposefully come take the student's life themself. These administrators' policies encourage crime and provide a catalyst for evil to be worked.
 

t33j

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those college administrators and board members that allow this type of policy to be in place are of no better ilk than the scum who would purposefully come take the student's life themself. These administrators' policies encourage crime and provide a catalyst for evil to be worked.
qft
 

ed

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The CC has honest to God sworn cops?
Yep. And they have full authority to enforce all laws of the state on campus and within 300 yards or something like that.. I'd have to find the cite. I've read it before after reading the NVCC websire:

"All NOVA police officers are fully trained, state certified by the Department of Criminal Justice Services of the Commonwealth of Virginia and sworn. Their jurisdiction covers all property owned and controlled by NOVA -- its streets, sidewalks and highways immediately adjacent to each campus. All sworn officers shall preserve the public peace, protect life and property, enforce and uphold the laws of the Commonwealth of Virginia. NOVA police officers patrol the campuses and are available to respond to calls 24 hours a day, seven days a week. They have authority to make arrests and carry firearms. They receive training at the Northern Virginia Criminal Academy in all aspects of law enforcement. "
 

SouthernBoy

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I know that, at the Annandale campus, the campus police pull over cars all the time on the roads adjacent to the school property. Depending on where exactly your friend was pulled over, and what exactly the cop saw him do, he might be able to argue that he was not on school property at the time, and that they can not prove that he in fact had the gun in his vehicle on campus.

However, isn't it true that the public highways adjacent to the college property are not under the control of and therefore are to be treated like any other highway in the state? Example. I could freely walk down the sidewalk next to the college, openly carrying a sidearm and there would be nothing the college rent-a-cops could do about it. Or if a firearm was laying on a seat in my car and one of them happened to see it, too bad. I am acting within my rights and am untouchable by doing this.

Am I correct in assuming this? And doesn't the same hold true for GMU?
 
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t33j

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Example. I could freely walk down the sidewalk next to the college, openly carrying a sidearm and there would be nothing the college rent-a-cops could do about it.
I do that just about every day. You could be *on* campus as you are not a student. You'd probably just be hassled by the cops about it.
 

t33j

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GMU police are pretty educated on OC and don't bother from what I've seen, even on campus. Off campus, I've OC'd in sight of GMU officers and they never looked twice. :)

yes I realize that ODU is not GMU and Norfolk is not Fairfax. :lol:

Still, my experiences mirror yours... for the most part
 

Uber_Olafsun

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Yep. And they have full authority to enforce all laws of the state on campus and within 300 yards or something like that.. I'd have to find the cite. I've read it before after reading the NVCC websire:

"All NOVA police officers are fully trained, state certified by the Department of Criminal Justice Services of the Commonwealth of Virginia and sworn. Their jurisdiction covers all property owned and controlled by NOVA -- its streets, sidewalks and highways immediately adjacent to each campus. All sworn officers shall preserve the public peace, protect life and property, enforce and uphold the laws of the Commonwealth of Virginia. NOVA police officers patrol the campuses and are available to respond to calls 24 hours a day, seven days a week. They have authority to make arrests and carry firearms. They receive training at the Northern Virginia Criminal Academy in all aspects of law enforcement. "


Funny how they are sworn to protect the laws of the Commonwealth even when the school policies are against the laws.
 
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